Discussion topic: Alicante Bouschet

[Jenise]

In my thread Cucamonga, I mention that a wine blend I expected to be mostly Grenache turned out to be 50% Zin and 30% Alicante Bouschet. Only when I tasted this recently purchased Raj Parr wine and recognized the AB component, which stands out even though it's not the most-major player, did I remember that I have never liked this grape in the past. My first ever experience was from a long-ago California producer called Topolos that only Tom Hill might remember, and I have encountered it very few times since.

Does anyone actually like Alicante Bouschet?

Alicante bouschet is noted for the intense purple color of its skin and is one of the few V. vinifera varieties with tinted flesh. It is very popular with those French winemakers who make plonk because it is easy to grow, has big yields, and can give proper red color to aramon, which otherwise is as characterless in its color as in its flavor. I once made the mistake of signing up for a California Wine of the Month club that turned out to be a dumping place for inferior wines. One of the wines they sent me was a varietal alicante bouchet. It had a deep color only matched by ruby Port. On both the nose and palate it was totally lacking in character. A Triple Shemp if ever there was one. Or perhaps better described in Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy terms: "mostly harmless".

-Paul W.

In my thread Cucamonga, I mention that a wine blend I expected to be mostly Grenache turned out to be 50% Zin and 30% Alicante Bouschet. Only when I tasted this recently purchased Raj Parr wine and recognized the AB component, which stands out even though it's not the most-major player, did I remember that I have never liked this grape in the past. My first ever experience was from a long-ago California producer called Topolos that only Tom Hill might remember, and I have encountered it very few times since.

Does anyone actually like Alicante Bouschet?

I haven't got the deep roots of Tom, but I too recall Topolos from my days in California. I've mostly had Alicante Bouschet in various field blends, but my impression was always that it was added to give structure but had little character of its own.

[Jenise]

Mark, what I understand too. Black, tannic and perfume-y which some might consider a plus.

I just checked my CT notes and found only one AB documented there, a blend with grenached from Envinate (Tenerife) which I liked. Also saw in another note that a shelf talker for an Italian wine I tried said that 'Alicante' is Italy's name for grenache, which I don't remember knowing. My description of the wine itself, though, supports it.

[Jenise]

Paul, apparently it's pretty popular in Texas, too. Grows well on the high plains.

I remember the Topolos AB (but not well). The problem with Topolos wines was not so much the grapes but the wine making - lots of bretty, volatile character.

There are actually some great Alicante Bouschet wines made in Portugal's Alentejo. Perhaps the most notable one is Mouchao Tonel 3-4, but I've never tried it (seems to be fetching > $200/bottle in the US - https://winelibrary.com/wines/alicante- ... het-140833), but there are also some good ones (blends too) at more moderate price points. Appears in some decent Spanish wines under the name Garnacha Tintorera as well.

[David M. Bueker]

IIRC, Ridge actually did a bottling that was labeled AB. I swear I have had it, but can’t find a note/reference. One of the guys who used to be in my tasting group was always grabbing weird varietal bottlings. I am 99% sure he opened it.

Alicante is one of those names that means one thing in one country, something else entirely in another, and so on.

My first job in the wine business, if this qualifies, was working for a company that sold equipment and supplies for people who wanted to make wine at home. To eliminate the inconvenience factor for people with day jobs, they sold grape concentrates, so if you didn't have the necessary time, or database to find a grape source, and the necessary hours to retrieve and transport the raw material, you could open a jug of concentrate and re-hydrate, and ferment that into a (kind of) wine. It likely would have very little aromatic character, very little detail, and, at least, some alcohol, and some color. One such product was marketed as "Rioja" and contained what was categorized as "Tintorero" Probably, Alicante Bouschet. Good color, slightly vinous. Not very interesting. It was imported from Spain. Most of the concentrates were from California, primarily the San Joaquin Valley. Wine-Art, the company who employed me, in the Summer of 1972, went bankrupt in 1973.

Fortunately, a month or so later, I had a job in a wine shop next door to the shop from which I was dismissed, and my real career in wine began.

[Jenise]

Steve, I'd forgotten that when I moved here to the northest westest corner of the U.S., just over the border were several shops devoted to home winemaking using the products you describe. Several people in my semi-Canadian neighborhood were customers--and distressingly deluded about the quality of their homemade hooch. They all tasted cooked which of course they should have. Those shops are gone now, thankfully.

In my thread Cucamonga, I mention that a wine blend I expected to be mostly Grenache turned out to be 50% Zin and 30% Alicante Bouschet. Only when I tasted this recently purchased Raj Parr wine and recognized the AB component, which stands out even though it's not the most-major player, did I remember that I have never liked this grape in the past. My first ever experience was from a long-ago California producer called Topolos that only Tom Hill might remember, and I have encountered it very few times since.

Does anyone actually like Alicante Bouschet?

I haven't got the deep roots of Tom, but I too recall Topolos from my days in California. I've mostly had Alicante Bouschet in various field blends, but my impression was always that it was added to give structure but had little character of its own.

Topolos was a wnry that started out making some pretty good wines. But I think a winemaker change caused them to develop a very serious problem with very high volatile acidity & it was across all their wines. The wines were pretty dreadful. But the restaurant upstairs was always pretty good, if a bit rustic.
Ridge has made some excellent AB from Pagani Ranch, probably the best expression of pure AB I can recall. As was mentioned, AB is a grape that is a tenturier and the color tends to not be very stable & it turns brown as the weird phenolics are oxidized. But the Ridge AB didn't hold a candle to their Pagani Zin.
AB makes a wine that is rather on the coarse/rustic side and oftentimes shows lots of tannins. Its highest calling is probably as a blending grape.
Tom

After work yesterday I braved the rioting criminals in the streets of Washington, DC (/sarc) and walked over to Maxwell Park, probably the best winebar in DC, for a couple glasses. I was surprised to find one of this month's selections to be 2023 Volteface Reserva from Alentejo, with a blend of 75% Alicante Bouschet and 25% Syrah, and given this thread, had to try a pour. As one might expect it was inky dark, with a pretty nose (!). Really big and somewhat tannic, but the tannins are soft and the wine is quite well balanced, despite the 15% abv. I've seen this wine around in the DC market for about $20 an was somewhat put off by its gimmicky label, but it would be a nice introduction to AB for the curious. I looked up their website and they have a premium wine that is 100% AB and 16%!

Another interesting taste was the 2023 Clairette Blanche from Two Shepards (Dunnigan Hills, CA). Maybe Tom Hill knows this winery? They seem to specialize in wine from uncommon varieties (for CA), and claim this is from the only 10 acres of that grape in the state. Organic, unfined and unfiltered, a touch of well judged oak and only 11% abv.

Trekking back to the metro I found there were some of our occupying forces protecting us from the predators. They were all studying their phones, apparently hot on the trail of some bad guys... your tax dollars at work!

I like Alicante Bouschet. I've only had varietals from Europe, the only US ones have been as a small percentage in a Ridge Zin blend. I prefer Zin with a little something else, such as Petite Sirah, Carignan and AB.*

Joel Peterson (Ravenswood/Once & Future) also prefers Zin with a little something else. He did a session where we tasted a 100% Zin and a 100% Carignan and 100% Alicante Bouschet then Zin blends with them, then we all had the chance to make our own bland with the 100% Zins and the complementary varieties. Regarding AB, Joel said :"a little AB goes a long way, can quickly dominate a wine."

*Going back through CT I see I bought a 1999 Topolos AB from the winery in 2002, I must have liked it to buy it, but I cannot remember anything of it now.

[Jenise]

After work yesterday I braved the rioting criminals in the streets of Washington, DC (/sarc) and walked over to Maxwell Park, probably the best winebar in DC, for a couple glasses. I was surprised to find one of this month's selections to be 2023 Volteface Reserva from Alentejo, with a blend of 75% Alicante Bouschet and 25% Syrah, and given this thread, had to try a pour. As one might expect it was inky dark, with a pretty nose (!). Really big and somewhat tannic, but the tannins are soft and the wine is quite well balanced, despite the 15% abv. I've seen this wine around in the DC market for about $20 an was somewhat put off by its gimmicky label, but it would be a nice introduction to AB for the curious. I looked up their website and they have a premium wine that is 100% AB and 16%!

Another interesting taste was the 2023 Clairette Blanche from Two Shepards (Dunnigan Hills, CA). Maybe Tom Hill knows this winery? They seem to specialize in wine from uncommon varieties (for CA), and claim this is from the only 10 acres of that grape in the state. Organic, unfined and unfiltered, a touch of well judged oak and only 11% abv.

Trekking back to the metro I found there were some of our occupying forces protecting us from the predators. They were all studying their phones, apparently hot on the trail of some bad guys... your tax dollars at work!

Joe, I love this response, including (and maybe especially!) the sly political commentary. Made my day. But back to the wines, interesting about the Spanish wine at the wine bar. Via that country's products many of us have probably drunk more AB than we realize.

Re Clairette, I've seen a little here in Washington state. They're growing some in the most important new vineyard of the last 20 years or so, WeatherEye, so there's high probability I'll see more of it. Someone, and it might be them, even bottled a 100% version recently which I haven't had the pleasure of meeting, but would sure like to.

And Peter, interesting re the blending exercise. But re adding a little something else, I would guess nearly everyone on this board would agree that almost any deep red wine destined to become a single variety benefits from a little extra this or that. Bordeaux is based on that principal, right? Offhand, pinot noir would be the exception.

Jenise: I actually feel sorry for the National Guard guys that I see standing around DC, wearing some very hot looking camo, with all sorts of gear and looking totally bored. Not so much for the ICE/HSI stormtroopers. Coming soon to the NW....

Peter: I seem to recall there was a time that a French wine containing AB had to be classified as 'Vin de France', but can't find a reference. Maybe something initiated after the bad old days of adulterated Burgundy?

[Jenise]

Jenise: I actually feel sorry for the National Guard guys that I see standing around DC, wearing some very hot looking camo, with all sorts of gear and looking totally bored. Not so much for the ICE/HSI stormtroopers. Coming soon to the NW....

Facebook is now full of beautific pictures of "war-ravaged Portland". Such a JOKE.

Offhand, pinot noir would be the exception.

In Burgundy they blend PN with Gamay

Issue in Spain is there is a wine region called Alicante.
I've bought wine from there, but the variety in the bottle is Monastrell

Peter: I seem to recall there was a time that a French wine containing AB had to be classified as 'Vin de France', but can't find a reference. Maybe something initiated after the bad old days of adulterated Burgundy?

Not aware of it. I've got a French AB from Languedoc but I cannot check the label as I don't know where it is as my cellar is all over the place as a result of my having to move out all my wines in order to install a new 'smart' meter,

[Jenise]

Offhand, pinot noir would be the exception.

In Burgundy they blend PN with Gamay

I'm aware. But it's a style with its own name. When it's just pinot, it's just pinot.

Offhand, pinot noir would be the exception.

In Burgundy they blend PN with Gamay

I'm aware. But it's a style with its own name. When it's just called pinot, it's just pinot.

I think I misunderstood what you were getting at. I thought you were saying the Pinot is not blended.

But Red Burgundy is not called Pinot.

Also you said "But re adding a little something else, I would guess nearly everyone on this board would agree that almost any deep red wine destined to become a single variety benefits from a little extra this or that. Bordeaux is based on that principal, right? Offhand, pinot noir would be the exception."

I think the makers of single varietal Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot (including those in Bordeaux) would not agree with you.

And many people wouldn't agree that Pinot is a 'deep red wine'

[Jenise]

Sigh.

Not a fan of AB and I do not cellar or drink it. I've always considered it a somewhat 'coarse' varietal. Looked in my market - there are only two, a cheapie ALENTEJANO - CASA SANTOS LIMA QUID PRO QUO at $16 - might be worth trying as it is mostly Touriga Nacional, Tinto Roriz, Syrah, and an expensive one ($97) with AB as a minority player (less than 10% made from it, in a mix with Merenzao, Brancellao, Grao Negro and Jerez).

Casa Santa Lima is generally a producer of inexpensive wines - the one you cite would probably be < $10 in Newark, NJ. Likely OK quality, but far from artisanal production. Now the other wine would appear to be from Galicia in Spain? Some of those grapes are found with other names elsewhere (Merenzao = Bastardo in Portugal, Trousseau in France) Judging from that mix of grapes, it is probably a field blend from an old vineyard planted with traditional grapes, AB sometimes shows up there is a minor component. Might be a good wine, but I don't know if I would spend $97 to find out.