WTN: Ahr Spätburgunder

My first experience with where pirates go to drink wine (you can roll your eyes at this point):

2005 Deutzerhof Cossmann-Helle Ahr Spätburgunder Balthasar C. (Germany) 13.5% – appears cranberry color, see through easily, smell toothpaste/fennel seed, very rough berry, bit of body odor, bit of burn, mouthfeel slight silkiness, soft combined with strong acid, taste cherry and strawberry strong upfront, very soft until finish, then battery acid and numbing tartness kick in, any hopes for this wine fell apart on the finish for me, bizarre

My first experience with where pirates go to drink wine (you can roll your eyes at this point):

2005 Deutzerhof Cossmann-Helle Ahr Spätburgunder Balthasar C. (Germany) 13.5% – appears cranberry color, see through easily, smell toothpaste/fennel seed, very rough berry, bit of body odor, bit of burn, mouthfeel slight silkiness, soft combined with strong acid, taste cherry and strawberry strong upfront, very soft until finish, then battery acid and numbing tartness kick in, any hopes for this wine fell apart on the finish for me, bizarre

Bad puns rock! So who actually does make nice Spätburgunder in Germany? I'm sure someone gets it right, but my experiences have ranged from mediocre to drinkable but unexciting.

-O-

My first experience with where pirates go to drink wine (you can roll your eyes at this point):

2005 Deutzerhof Cossmann-Helle Ahr Spätburgunder Balthasar C. (Germany) 13.5% – appears cranberry color, see through easily, smell toothpaste/fennel seed, very rough berry, bit of body odor, bit of burn, mouthfeel slight silkiness, soft combined with strong acid, taste cherry and strawberry strong upfront, very soft until finish, then battery acid and numbing tartness kick in, any hopes for this wine fell apart on the finish for me, bizarre

Bad puns rock! So who actually does make nice Spätburgunder in Germany? I'm sure someone gets it right, but my experiences have ranged from mediocre to drinkable but unexciting.

-O-

Otto,

I will continue to sing the praises of August Kesseler from the 'Gau. Also, Meyer-Naekel up in the Ahr makes some very nice stuff. I have had a good Deutzerhof or two -for the record.


Prost!
Bill

Wow, Keith ... thanks for posting on an Ahr Spätburgunder. I'm surprised that it would even mature to a whopping 13.5% alcohol - do you think that maybe it was (over)chaptalized? I can't account for the strangeness of the aromas in the wine, but maybe these were off odours picked up at some point during processing. I often come across a very disappointing phenomenon when buying jellies, juices and sometimes dairy products from small farms: at times, these things can have a "tainted" taste that approximates the smell of a dirty rag (sorry if anyone happens to be eating while reading this!). It could be from the machinery in contact with the food or perhaps from less-than-spotless conditions at the processing facility in general. I can't say that this happened to this wine, but maybe?

So who actually does make nice Spätburgunder in Germany? I'm sure someone gets it right, but my experiences have ranged from mediocre to drinkable but unexciting.

Also, Meyer-Naekel up in the Ahr makes some very nice stuff. I have had a good Deutzerhof or two -for the record.

So many variables here all shifting at once. To tell you the truth, I was pretty psyched when I headed up to the Ahr because I actually was impressed by my small introduction to the whole Spätburgunder scene in Baden last year when I picked up some 2004ers. But my recent tasting (again only a few producers--it's hard to fit in many tastings on Saturdays when everything shuts down at 1400) of Ahr Spätburgunders left me a bit disappointed. I didn't get the chance to set up a proper appointment at Mayer-Naekel, but I did lunch at the restaurant they run, Hofgarten - Gutsschenke Meyer-Näkel (a lovely place, by the way, great food and atmosphere, I highly recommend it). I tried the three wines they offered by the glass, and, though they were among the better of the day, I can't say I was impressed.

But, again, too many variables. Vintage, region, palate. Was 2005 just particularly not great for Ahr or 2004 was for Baden? Or does Baden just out-bat Ahr? Or is it just my personal preferences, while someone else might think 2005 Ahr Spätburgunders are the best thing since Gary Hart?

And, even when I do find one I like, I have to be worried about the 'consistency' of the producer.

Complex stuff. But most def fun. When I do run into Spätburgunders I like, I really do enjoy them, so part of the fun will be finding them.

I'm surprised that it would even mature to a whopping 13.5% alcohol - do you think that maybe it was (over)chaptalized?

Paul,

I'm sure someone will speak up if I am mistaken myself here, but I think many, if not most, Spätburgunders are chapitalized--or at least I assume so because I believe they are always classified as QbAs. Someone let me know if I'm wrong, please! But then the question would be why to chapitalize 'that' much. I wouldn't say it tasted of alcohol, but I think they might be going for a certain more powerful style--not sure though.

[/quote]I can't account for the strangeness of the aromas in the wine, [/quote]

It might just be the strangeness of my wine descriptors! Another impression I think I had was 'swampy weed water'. But the funny thing is it wasn't undrinkable, just odd. My adjectives were probably a bit more pejorative than I actually felt about the wine. But it was odd, in my opinion. Interesting . . . processing could have something to do with it, but I think this is a respected producer in the Ahr--I'd be surprised if they didn't have that part down (but heck something is awry). I just hope this wasn't an incredibly brilliant wine that palate is just too underdeveloped to appreciate!

Another vote for August Kessler Spatburgunder.

I think many, if not most, Spätburgunders are chapitalized--

Really? In 2005? And in the South?

That would surprise me, but I have no real information myself. Anyone else?

By law, Süssreserve is permitted for QbA wines (and appallingly, Grosses Gewächs), but most good producers don't rely on it. The biggest reason for the QbA label is blending of sites, not ripeness issues. The Ahr is mostly controlled by co-ops, who might use Süssreserve AND Portugieser to beef-up Spätburgunder. Adeneuer does, in good years, make and label Auslese Pinot Noir and their 'No. 1' is always made with grapes no less ripe than 100 Oechsle. Deutzerhof too makes Auslese Trocken. Keep in mind too, that yields for top estates are ridiculously low at around 20 hl/ha, allowing greater ripeness even in the Ahr (which is surprisingly hot and dry). Overall, with more suitable clones, better sites, and warmer weather, Süssreserve is becoming a thing of the past even for red wines. In more southerly regions, the problem is lessened even more.

The biggest reason for the QbA label is blending of sites, not ripeness issues.

Ahh, I stand corrected. Thank you, Bill, for that most informative response. A 'little knowledge' for me is indeed a dangerous thing, but it helps so much to have such a good sketch of the particular requirements and practices of the whole scene--building my understanding step by step.

Thanks!

By law, Süssreserve is permitted for QbA wines (and appallingly, Grosses Gewächs), but most good producers don't rely on it. The biggest reason for the QbA label is blending of sites, not ripeness issues. The Ahr is mostly controlled by co-ops, who might use Süssreserve AND Portugieser to beef-up Spätburgunder. Adeneuer does, in good years, make and label Auslese Pinot Noir and their 'No. 1' is always made with grapes no less ripe than 100 Oechsle. Deutzerhof too makes Auslese Trocken. Keep in mind too, that yields for top estates are ridiculously low at around 20 hl/ha, allowing greater ripeness even in the Ahr (which is surprisingly hot and dry). Overall, with more suitable clones, better sites, and warmer weather, Süssreserve is becoming a thing of the past even for red wines. In more southerly regions, the problem is lessened even more.

Sweet reserve is of course only an option for makers of "traditional" off-dry pseudo red wines, which used to be common in Germany, but are moving towards extincion. The QbA label allows chaptalisation, which in times of global warming is also hardly necessary. The leading producers of Germanies "new wave" red wines used QbA or even "Tafelwein" in order to distinguish their dry wines from to off-dry pseudo reds, and to not face questioning when they drench their wines in new oack, which is the new vice of the German red wine production of course...

Peter

The biggest reason for the QbA label is blending of sites, not ripeness issues.

The leading producers of Germanies "new wave" red wines used QbA or even "Tafelwein" in order to distinguish their dry wines from to off-dry pseudo reds, and to not face questioning when they drench their wines in new oack, which is the new vice of the German red wine production of course...

Thank you, Bill and Peter--everything I had heard about the distinction between Qualitätswein bestimmter Anbaugebiete (QbA) and Qualitätswein mit Prädikat (QmP) revolved around chaptalization and ripeness, so it's great to have a more complete understanding. A couple of questions of clarification . . .

Peter, is the use of new oak something that legally forces a producer to go with QbA (ie, is use/non-use of new oak a distinguishing feature between QbA and QmP)? Or do producers who use new oak just choose to go with QbA even though they could legally go with QmP, but they want to set their wine apart in consumers' minds from the old skool German reds?

Bill: And, just to make sure I'm getting this right . . . chaptalization is the addition of sugar before or during fermentation while adding Süssreserve is the addition of unfermented grape juice after fermentation is complete. My understanding is that chaptalization is permitted for QbA wines but not for QmP wines (though respectable producers don't chaptalize in general)--but that the addition of Süssreserve is permitted for either QbA or QmP wines (though again rarely practiced by respectable producers--heading toward extinction and all that).

Do I have that right? Apologies for drawing this out with my limited understanding, but I'm learning a mile a minute!

Peter, is the use of new oak something that legally forces a producer to go with QbA (ie, is use/non-use of new oak a distinguishing feature between QbA and QmP)? Or do producers who use new oak just choose to go with QbA even though they could legally go with QmP, but they want to set their wine apart in consumers' minds from the old skool German reds?

The use of oak barrels is now so widespread and accepted that you find it also in predicate wines. I'm not familiar with the legal details, but there is no reliable way of telling an (new)oack-free wine from the label. In the 80s and into the 90s such wines would not have been allowed a predicate.

Peter

[David M. Bueker]

And, just to make sure I'm getting this right . . . chaptalization is the addition of sugar before or during fermentation while adding Süssreserve is the addition of unfermented grape juice after fermentation is complete. My understanding is that chaptalization is permitted for QbA wines but not for QmP wines (though respectable producers don't chaptalize in general)--but that the addition of Süssreserve is permitted for either QbA or QmP wines (though again rarely practiced by respectable producers--heading toward extinction and all that).

Do I have that right? Apologies for drawing this out with my limited understanding, but I'm learning a mile a minute!

Yes, you have it right. But of course no quality spatburgunder is going to see any sussreserve.

And I will also praise the Spatburgunders of August Kesseler, but the prices are insanely high.

[David M. Bueker]

I should clarify that your parenthetical comments about respectable producers go a bit far. There are still high quality producers who chaptalize their QbA offerings (e.g. Leitz Dragonstone), as well as producers who still use sussreserve. The use of quality sussreserve (i.e. same grape, same site, same harvest as the base wine) is just as valid a way to deal with a wine's sweetness as is guessing when to stop fermentation (the other way of making the sweeter wines).

Anyone who tells you that the sweeter wines all stopped their fermentation naturally is selling you something that you don't want to buy. Some do stop naturally (but of course still have to be filtered to prevent a later spontaneous fermentation in bottle), but it's hardly the majority. I've had a few delicious halbtrockens that stopped all on their own, but not many.