Black Bordeaux?

[Jenise]

A friend emailed me to ask if I'd heard of "the Black Bordeaux". A retailer in Toronto had told him anyone who is into Bordeaux would know about it. My friend hadn't, so he asked me. Nope, not me either. Googling turns up nothing.

Probably just some kind of retailer come-on, but I thought I'd ask here anyway.

Interesting, Jenise. I have never heard of it either, nor have I seen this terminology used at the LCBO or Vintages. What did they mean by "black" anyway - that the wine is so dark as to be black, or is Black supposedly the name of the producer and/or distributor or négociant? So many questions.

Could it be Cahors (aka the Black wine of Cahors). Not Bordeaux, but possibly where the reference originated?

Petit Verdot, apparently, among others. New to me Jenise.

"Also unusual is that within the DMD, virtually every vineyard contains some petit verdot. In fact, the mountain is home to probably the greatest concentration of this scarce variety in any of Napa Valley's sub-AVAs. One of the classic black Bordeaux varieties, petit verdot on its own yields deeply colored, concentrated, tannic wine; the grape brings these attributes to the blending table as well."

http://www.thewinenews.com/junjul05/cover.asp

I'll see what else I can dig up. Regards, Bob

[Jenise]

Doubt if the guy meant Cahors. Henry is wine-savvy and pretty exclusively interested in Bordeaux and Burgundy, so one would presume the guy would factor that into whatever he was presenting. Henry's also pretty literate, so Henry's grammar--"the Black Bordeaux"--capitalized, might be taken into consideration. Regarding the possibility that the fellow was referring to a grape variety, the implication was that there was a single wine famously known by this moniker. Glad everyone else is as immediately clueless as I was.

Here's an old poem using the phrase, Jenise:

A Partie Carrée

And some other stuff:

From Insignia via Barb Freda:

"Insignia" 2000, Joseph Phelps, Napa Valley, California
Clear, bright, ruby black color. High concentration of color, meaning we couldn't see much through the wine in the glass. The nose brought berries, cherries and plum, chocolate and clove. Tasting revealed the cherries and jammy, rich flavors. Medium tannins, high alcohol. Insignia is "California's first 'Meritage' wine…based on Cabernet Sauvignon and blended with varying proportions of the other black Bordeaux grapes." This wine was aged in new French oak for 20-26 months. Grapes come mainly from the Phelps vineyards in Rutherford and Stag's Leap. Retail: $125

http://www.wineloverspage.com/reports/msomm.phtml

The phrase doesn't appear in Bordeaux: A Consumer's Guide to the World's Finest Wines, by Robert M. Parker. See
Amazon Search

There are a number of references to a grape called Black Bordeaux in the 1850s which was supposed to be good for growing in greenhouses, and I saw a lot of references to a "black Bordeaux bottle", but that describes the bottle, not the wine.

And it's not in the THE SUPER GIGANTIC Y2K WINEGRAPE GLOSSARY, by Anthony J. Hawkins. Nor, I see, in Wine Searcher Pro, anywhere in the world.

Beats me.

Regards, Bob

Maybe this phrase is in reference to when the southwest of France was still controlled by England and Bordeaux was the capital of an independent state under Edward, the Black Prince from 1362 to 1372.

Salute

I think they're using the French way of saying 'red Bordeaux varieties' rather than the English one.

Seems to me like an ignorant wine merchant bullshitting, and trying to belittle, his customers. I doubt such a thing exists. And even if it does it is obviously not true that "anyone who is into Bordeaux would know about it".

A friend emailed me to ask if I'd heard of "the Black Bordeaux". A retailer in Toronto had told him anyone who is into Bordeaux would know about it. My friend hadn't, so he asked me. Nope, not me either. Googling turns up nothing.

Probably just some kind of retailer come-on, but I thought I'd ask here anyway.

Hi Jenise,

Funny you mentioned "black Bordeaux" in the forum since I just had a long discussion with a specialist of "black wine" in Cahors. The color of black wine comes from Malbec: Cahors wines are over 85% Malbec and due to the climate their wines are almost dark - and very good.
Starting in the 17th century the two wines mostly drunk in England were the "claret" of Bordeaux and the "black wine" of Cahors. If there are any references about "Black Bordeaux", it is certainly way back in time as some suggested. The traditional Bordeaux grapes, such as Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Petit Verdot, are indeed "black grapes" but the wine is red even in older times.

In the 18th-19th centuries, the Malbec grape (also called Cot) was still part of the Bordeaux wines. It was called "Noir de Pessac" ("Black from Pessac") by the people from Libourne (on the right bank of Bordeaux near St Emilion)- Pessac being a small city close to Bordeaux in the Graves Appellation where you can find Chateau Haut-Bailly, Chateau Haut-Brion, Chateau Smith Haut-Lafitte and Chateau Pape Clément.

Cheers, Eve

Well done, Eve -- thanks. Regards, Bob

There are a number of references to a grape called Black Bordeaux in the 1850s which was supposed to be good for growing in greenhouses, and I saw a lot of references to a "black Bordeaux bottle", but that describes the bottle, not the wine.

I too have never heard the phrase Black Bordeaux, but I wonder if the reference you found could refer to a teinturer grape?

There is a red juice variety grown in South Africa called Pontac that supposedly originated in Bordeaux area and it is surmised that its name was taken from the Pontac family who at one time were big in Graves. The Cape was exporting Pontac wine to Europe at the end of the 1700's.

Pontac, as expected, makes a very intense dark wine.

There is a red juice variety grown in South Africa called Pontac that supposedly originated in Bordeaux area and it is surmised that its name was taken from the Pontac family who at one time were big in Graves. The Cape was exporting Pontac wine to Europe at the end of the 1700's.

Pontac, as expected, makes a very intense dark wine.

This is very interesting. Pontac is the name of one of the first families who owned Haut-Brion in the 16th century. Haut-Brion is located in Pessac where the Black of Pessac is originated. There might be a connection here. The wine of Pontac (it wasn't called Haut-Brion yet) was exported in England and in many other countries.

Eve