WE: Opaque Natural Wine Labels

Interesting article today in WineEnthusiast:
[WE:NaturalWineLabeling](https://www.winemag.com/2023/01/13/natural-wine-labels/)
on how some makers of natural wine are being forced to obscure the origins of their wines by the regulating authorities.
In particular, Roland Velich/MoricWines was forbidden to correctly label his wine because it was disqualified as being "oxidized, reductive, faulty & atypical of the grape variety". That's very peculair. I've never had a Moric wine I thought to be oxidized. Furthermore, how can a wine be oxidized & reductive at the same time?? He was forbidden to label it as "Sankt Georgen Gruner Veltliner". If it was made from the SanktGeorgen grape (one of the parents of GrunerVeltliner), then...doh...no surprise it was atypical of GV. If it was made from GV grown in SanktGeorgen, then it should be allowed to state it on the label.
Another disqualified wine was a HannesSchuster/RosiSchuster wine (probably BlauFrankisch) that had "too much SO2". This wine clocked in at a whopping 26 mg/litre....well below the SO2 level for most commercial wines.

Question: When they identified the St.Georgen vine as one of the parents of GV, I know they took cuttings from that original vine (after it was vandalized & recovered from the dead) and were going to propagate it as a grape variety on its own merit. Does anyone know if that St.Georgen variety has been made into a wine on its own?? I've seen (and tried one/Moric) that was labeled SanktGeorgen GrunerVeltliner, but it was not clear if it was the actual SanktGeorgen variety or merely GV grown in the village of Sankt Georgen.
Anyone have any inside information & can shed any light on my question.

Anyway, a rather interesting read.
Tom

[David M. Bueker]

You write a lot of notes telling us how bad many natural wines are. Maybe the authorities are keeping you from having wines that are even worse.

"Maybe the authorities are keeping you from having wines that are even worse."
Or perhaps they're merely being authoritarian.

[David M. Bueker]

The “natural” wine industry could use some authority.

He was forbidden to label it as "Sankt Georgen Gruner Veltliner"

Who are these "authorities"? BATF? I didn't know they did any quality assessment of wines. I thought they just checked that the varietal and location information on the label is correct.

If this wine is varietal Sankt Georgen, then the "authorities" are right for nixing the label. SG may be one of the parent varieties of GV, but that doesn't mean you can label a SG as a GV, anymore than you can label a sauvignon blanc as cabernet sauvignon, even though SB is one of CS's parents.

I can see how a wine could be both oxidized and reductive, if the winemaking is sloppy enough. You oxidize the wine by exposing it to too much oxygen early in the process. Then you overcompensate for that by denying the wine sufficient air, which leads to the buildup of reductive sulfur compounds.

It seems that, in their quest to recover winemaking as it used to be, they're also reproducing wine quality as it used to be.

-Paul W.

[David M. Bueker]

It seems that, in their quest to recover winemaking as it used to be, they're also reproducing wine quality as it used to be.

Yep. And too many natural winemakers treat faults as virtues.

He was forbidden to label it as "Sankt Georgen Gruner Veltliner"

Who are these "authorities"? BATF? I didn't know they did any quality assessment of wines. I thought they just checked that the varietal and location information on the label is correct.

If this wine is varietal Sankt Georgen, then the "authorities" are right for nixing the label. SG may be one of the parent varieties of GV, but that doesn't mean you can label a SG as a GV, anymore than you can label a sauvignon blanc as cabernet sauvignon, even though SB is one of CS's parents.

I can see how a wine could be both oxidized and reductive, if the winemaking is sloppy enough. You oxidize the wine by exposing it to too much oxygen early in the process. Then you overcompensate for that by denying the wine sufficient air, which leads to the buildup of reductive sulfur compounds.

It seems that, in their quest to recover winemaking as it used to be, they're also reproducing wine quality as it used to be.

-Paul W.

Paul,
These are Austrian authorities who are responsible for approving te labels. Apparently they also taste to wines to make sure they meet certain quality standards.
If the wine is, indeed, SanktGeorgen variety, then GV should also not be listed on the label. But if it's a GV from around the village of SanktGeorgen, than that should be OK.

I've had a half dozen Moric/RolandVelich wines, mostly BlauFrankisch. They have not been either oxidized nor reductive. But they have been pretty atypical of Burgenland. Tons of new Fr.oak in an attempt to turn Blaufrankisch into RedBurg. I've not particularly liked the wines, but I've never found them flawed.
I've had a half dozen RosiSchuster wines and have found all of them quite good.
I suspect the tasting panels the Austrian authorities use are mostly from large commercial wineries & typicity is a big them for them. The more homogeneous are the wines, the better.
Tom

[David M. Bueker]

I suspect you are wrong, but then…

I suspect you are wrong, but then…

Wrong about what, David?
Many Austrian wines have that red/white striped label atop their screw caps/capsule. I would guess there is an Austrian authority that certifies the wine is qualified to carry that label on top.
But I could be wrong. I haven't been wrong since about 3:00pm this afternoon!!
Tom

[David M. Bueker]

Wrong about the panels. Completely wrong.

You really do like to play both sides of the street in the natural wine threads. It’s cute but not terribly useful from an educational standpoint.

Wrong about the panels. Completely wrong..

Hmmm, David.... guess I don't understand. The Austrian wine industry has no regulation?? Why were these winemakers bitchen about not being able to label their wines the way they wanted if they're not being subjected to regulation.
Can you refer me to a link on Austrian wine regulations that caught these winemakers ire??
Tom

You really do like to play both sides of the street in the natural wine threads. It’s cute but not terribly useful from an educational standpoint.

Guess I don't understand this comment, David.
Not sure "I play both sides of the street". I try a lot of natural wines. If they're unclean/natty/Mousey/undrinkable... I call them out. If they are not natty but interesting & drinkable I label them as such. If they're outstanding (seldom happens), I label them as such.
As you know, there is no definition of natural wines. For some, it's a winemaking philosophy that borders on religion & very dogmatic. If their wine is mousey, they regard that character with pride. And for other winemakers, it simply the philosophy they follow in making their wine and they can make good wine with those techniques. And for some, making a natural wine is not something they wear on their sleeve.
For my definition, if Sweet Alice says it's natural... that ends the discussion.
Tom

Another disqualified wine was a HannesSchuster/RosiSchuster wine (probably BlauFrankisch) that had "too much SO2".

I wonder which wine of Rosi Schuster the article is referring to. I doubt it is the Blaufränkisch (at least not the one from from 2019)
https://weinhaus-sued.de/die-weine/rotw ... kisch-2019

I had quite a few natural or "wild" wines from the Burgenland/NeusiedlerSee and I liked most of them. I only disliked one and was not enthusiastic about one other.

But in particular the "Neuburger Freyheit" from Gernot Heinrich and the "Welschriesling Bambule" from Judith Beck are excellent examples of what natural wine can be,

Are these Austrian authorities government regulators, or is this a consortium like VdP in Germany and Gallo Nero in Italy? Do Austrian place-of-origin wines have to pass a tasting panel? IIRC, that's the case with DOCG wines in Italy.

-Paul W.

Are these Austrian authorities government regulators, or is this a consortium like VdP in Germany and Gallo Nero in Italy? Do Austrian place-of-origin wines have to pass a tasting panel? IIRC, that's the case with DOCG wines in Italy.

Yes.

https://www.austrianwine.com/our-wine/wine-law/wine-law

The official state control number is explained on the German pages:

Prüfnummer

Sie kennzeichnet österreichischen Qualitäts- und Prädikatswein und wird erst nach einer chemischen Analyse und einer sensorischen Prüfung (durch eine Kostkommission) vergeben; erkennbar am Etikett als Buchstaben-Ziffernkombination (z.B. N 12345/10).

You get that number only after a chemical analysis and a sensoric test (by a tasting commission).

Thanks for the explanation. So it's like German QbA/QmP, which IIRC also involve a tasting panel.

-Paul W.