The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Adulteration?

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

9969

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Adulteration?

by Bill Spohn » Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:32 am

I've been reading a series of mysteries set in Paris, written by an author that lives there art time so should know the city and its habits well.

I was surprised when one of her books had posh reception at which they served vintage Champagne (Do Perignon) which they garnished (meaning dropped in) with a single sugar dipped rose petal per glass.

First thought - hmm, interesting. Second thought - WAIT! Adding sugar to Dom??? Apostasy for any knowledgeable wine lover. What next, a squirt of chocolate syrup if your Yquem doesn't quite suit you?

Anyone heard of other such adulterations? And I don't mean adding a bit of creme de cassis to your jug of Gallo Chard to make Kir.
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8489

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Adulteration?

by Paul Winalski » Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:40 pm

Well, there's the urban legend of Chinese plutocrats mixing Coca-Cola in with their Petrus. But it appears to be just that--an urban legend.

In the spirits world, I had friends who made a cocktail called the Green Dragon. It was Glenlivet single-malt scotch.mixed with green Chartreuse. Why would anyone want to ruin Chartreuse like that?

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

9969

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Adulteration?

by Bill Spohn » Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:03 pm

Paul Winalski wrote:In the spirits world, I had friends who made a cocktail called the Green Dragon. It was Glenlivet single-malt scotch.mixed with green Chartreuse. Why would anyone want to ruin Chartreuse like that?

-Paul W.


You know that I am a single malt maven, don't you? :twisted:
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34935

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Adulteration?

by David M. Bueker » Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:41 pm

Paul Winalski wrote:Well, there's the urban legend of Chinese plutocrats mixing Coca-Cola in with their Petrus. But it appears to be just that--an urban legend.

In the spirits world, I had friends who made a cocktail called the Green Dragon. It was Glenlivet single-malt scotch.mixed with green Chartreuse. Why would anyone want to ruin Chartreuse like that?

-Paul W.


The Petrus and Coke thing is only an urban legend because the Petrus was fake. Lots of crazy things were done with fakes of high end Bordeaux. Heck the Shanghai airport duty free shop sold obvious fakes at outrageous prices as recently as my last trip in 2017, so pretty much anything was fair game.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8489

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Adulteration?

by Paul Winalski » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:07 pm

I found a quote on the subject of wine + Coke in China--an observation that if you had been drinking what passed for Bordeaux in China, you'd have mixed it with cola, too.

One of my favorite wine fraud stories was of an atomic physicist who just for yucks did a detailed analysis of a pre-WW II vintage wine. He later asked his wine merchant how traces of certain isotopes from fallout of open-air atomic bomb testing in the 1950s had managed to find their way into the bottle.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

9969

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Adulteration?

by Bill Spohn » Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:18 pm

I had also heard the story about the radio-dating of a supposedly old wine. In the case of China, there is an active wine industry there and a few years back someone that had been there (was it you, Jenise?) brought a bottle of wine made by China Great Wall Wine Co. It wasn't as bad as it could have been but too long ago for any detailed memories
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43586

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Adulteration?

by Jenise » Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:04 pm

I have been to China, and I drank Chinese wine while there. And such was it that I would never have brought back any bottles to inflict on friends.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Victorwine

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2031

Joined

Thu May 18, 2006 9:51 pm

Re: Adulteration?

by Victorwine » Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:19 am

This reminds me of an incident that occurred at a private country club where my cousin had a family gathering. While entering the club we had to pass through the bar area to get to the private dining area. There was a group of "young" members sitting at a table in the bar area enjoying a bottle of Champagne. They were drinking from flutes that were rimmed with rose syrup and dried rose pedals. As we passed, they greeted us, and my father smiled and commented - "What, you do not like the Champagne?". The server, bartenders and the rest of the occupants in the bar area all broke out in laughter.

I guess this "tradition" of adulteration of both wine and spirits go back to earlier times when winemaking and distillation was in its earliest stages.

Salute
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8489

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Adulteration?

by Paul Winalski » Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:07 pm

There is of course one famous case where it's the spirit that's the adulterant. The gin and tonic cocktail came about from the use of quinine water ("tonic") as an anti-malarial agent. Gin was added to make the tonic water more palatable.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34935

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Adulteration?

by David M. Bueker » Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:02 pm

Jenise wrote:I have been to China, and I drank Chinese wine while there. And such was it that I would never have brought back any bottles to inflict on friends.


Yep. Chinese wine (circa 2012) was brutal. I was at a formal business dinner and had to drink some as part of several toasts. Shudder!
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3905

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Adulteration?

by Peter May » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:25 am

The comments about Chinese wine reminds me of the comments I received back home over California wine when I first came back from the place many decades ago.

There are some very palatable Chinese wines and there is no reason why there should not be. Most recently I have had Château Changyu Moser XV Cabernet Sauvignon. As the name suggests, it's a partnership with Austria's Lenz Moser and the vineyards are in Ningxia.

There is another partnership with Bordeaux's Ch Lafite-Rothschild; the wine is Domaine de Long Dai and I've not tasted it, and am unlikely too as it's jolly expensive - WineSearcher shows it retailing in the USA at 579 - 600 USD per bottle.

In the 1970's people here laughed at the idea of wine being made in America. Our supermarkets now are packed with cheap California wine. Yours may likewise be packed with cheap Chinese wines in the future. As I won't be around then may I say 'told you' now?
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34935

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Adulteration?

by David M. Bueker » Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:05 pm

No, you may not.

The advent of decent to good Chinese wine is very recent, and the result of significant investment that was not even close to mature in 2012 or so.

In a country as large as China there will no doubt be locations conducive to growing good wine grapes. It just took time to find them, plant them and mature the vines to production.

California of course had a significant head start on China, but then prohibition put a damper on things.

It’s the same everywhere that starts a new wine industry. It takes time to find the right balance and make good wines. It also takes money - even more now than it used to.
Decisions are made by those who show up

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amazonbot, ClaudeBot, SemrushBot and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign