The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21715

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

by Robin Garr » Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:58 am

I just randomly ran across this article and thought it was interesting.

The Simple Truth about Complexity in Wine
Complexity means a lot more than simply stacking up the flavors and hoping for the best.
Margaret Rand
Thursday, 23-Jul-2020


https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2020/07 ... g_site=WLP
no avatar
User

Steve Slatcher

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1047

Joined

Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:51 am

Location

Manchester, England

Re: Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

by Steve Slatcher » Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:10 am

Yes, an interesting subject, and I think another one where there many opinions and factoids, with few solid facts. Thinking of the group of MWs who all made individual assessments of minerality, and came up with very little agreement.... It would be interesting to see similar experiment for complexity. I would expect a similar result.

Indicentally, the "white noise" effect of many smell components, which Rosemary mentioned in passing, has been found in experiments, and been dubbed "olfactory white".
https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1208110109
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34936

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

by David M. Bueker » Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:55 am

Sauvignon Blanc is generally not very complex at all, which might be why it’s so popular.


:twisted:
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34936

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

by David M. Bueker » Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:59 am

I would have enjoyed a longer section on wild yeast, especially since the author was focused on yeasts that came in with the grapes from the vineyard. Wineries can have their own native populations, likely related to what came from the vineyard some year, but not exactly site specific.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8492

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

by Paul Winalski » Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:06 pm

Yeasts that come in with the grapes aren't necessarily a positive feature. Beaucastel's chronic brett problem was due to Brettanomyces having established itself as an indigenous yeast in the vineyards.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34936

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

by David M. Bueker » Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:44 pm

Paul Winalski wrote:Yeasts that come in with the grapes aren't necessarily a positive feature. Beaucastel's chronic brett problem was due to Brettanomyces having established itself as an indigenous yeast in the vineyards.

-Paul W.


Citation?
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Victorwine

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2031

Joined

Thu May 18, 2006 9:51 pm

Re: Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

by Victorwine » Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:59 am

How did Saccharomyces (wine yeast) get into the vineyards in the first place?

Grape berries that have been damaged (broken skins) on the vine are found to be rich depositories for microorganisms. It is believed, that even though there are many cells of Saccharomyces (wine yeast) on damaged berries, they are a minority. There is much controversary, in how much of a role Saccharomyces originating in the vineyard and those originating in the cellar actually contribute to the fermenting of grapes into wine. I would guess, that after thousands of years of making wine in a region Saccharomyces
could become rather a "bully" in both the vineyard (year after year returning the pomace into the vineyard) and cellar.

Salute
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8492

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

by Paul Winalski » Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:32 pm

Victorwine wrote:How did Saccharomyces (wine yeast) get into the vineyards in the first place?


Wild yeast spores (including both Saccharomyces and Brettanomyces) are everywhere. The waxy, white "bloom" on grapes contains yeast colonies. Like many fungi, yeasts excrete chemical compounds that interfere with the growth of both bacteria and other species of fungi. It's probably advantageous to the grapevine to have yeasts growing on the grapes to help prevent infection of the grapes.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Victorwine

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2031

Joined

Thu May 18, 2006 9:51 pm

Re: Wine-Searcher: Complexity in wine

by Victorwine » Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:24 pm

Some might find the following link interesting

https://academic.oup.com/femsyr/article/14/2/215/531574

All that was stated was the flora of microorganism found in the vineyard is dominated by non-Saccharomyces. Of course, depending upon the growing conditions the grapes had to ripen and what condition they are in (broken skins, disease state, etc.), the actual composition of this "natural" occurring flora of microorganism will vary. How they get there, as Paul stated, "windblown" (from somewhere), animal or insect vectors.
The microorganism population of any wine growing region (both vineyard and cellar) is most likely very similar. However, in areas where wine making and vine growing has a long history, this population of microorganisms adapted became better suited for that specific region and the wines produced there.
In other words, I guess (in the beginning) we can call this unintentional domestication.

Salute

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amazonbot, Apple Bot, ClaudeBot, SemrushBot and 25 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign