TN: St. Joseph

Notes from a tasting of St. Joseph Wines

If you go back to older books on Rhones, you’ll see references to medium bodied wines with Burgundian hints, and unexceptional whites. That has changed since the 90s, as this tasting underlined.

2018 Domaine Saint André de Figuière Côtes de Provence Atmosphère Extra Brut Methode Traditionelle – the starter wine was not in theme but from Provence and was a sparkling Cinsault/Grenache blend. It was yellow with pink hints, cherry in the nose but grapefruit on palate. Perfect way to start a tasting.

2016 Jean-Claude Marsanne SJ blanc – hints of oak in the nose along with stone fruit and a nice floral element, clean finish.

2017 Coursodon SJ blanc Le Paradis Saint Pierre – a very slightly burnt lemon and butter nose (made me think of popcorn) balanced and with good length.

2011 Tardieu Laurent Hermitage blanc – one participant lacked a white SJ but offered a white Hermitage, How could I turn that down? 80% Marsanne and 20% Roussanne, this had a darker colour, notably more oak in the nose along with a delicate pear component, a slightly oily mouth feel, and very good length.

We then switched to the reds, and I was up first. I was a bit unsure about the wine I presented as it was from the last century, and I hadn’t tasted it for seven years.

1997 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave St. Joseph – still fairly dark, and right off the bat it showed an absolutely killer nose of mature syrah with a garrigue element and some raspberry, and with time some tapenade. Excellent wine in great shape and sadly, my last bottle. Nice that it went out in style.

2006 Saint Cosme SJ – dark wine with dark fruit nose and more oak than many. Nice cassis notes and smooth long finish. Nice wine.

2010 Pierre Gonon SJ – we were fortunate to have a two bottle vertical of this wine. It was a dark wine showing a primarily herbal nose with some iron/blood, good fruit and length. Drinking really well now.

2011 Pierre Gonon SJ – a very different presentation – pepper, spice and green herbal notes in the nose, similar weight and length as the 2010 but more evolved and ready.

2011 Domaine Faury SJ Vieilles Vignes – another blood/iron nose, a bit riper and more rustic than the Gonon. Still young and very decent but not up to the level of the Gonon.

We finished with a cheese wine that was ...interesting!

2015 Domaine des Miquettes SJ Madloba[/b] – bizarre label worthy of Randall Grahm at his best, and a very, very dark wine with a ripe sweet nose of black fruit and considerable tannin and terminal acidity and concentrated fruit on palate. Made in amphorae, this is a Rhone from Spinal Tap – ‘turned up to 11’ Had we tasted it blind, I am not sure that we would have gone straight to the Rhone. I picked up some pastrami notes in the nose after awhile. Having said all that, and despite the obvious youth, it was very drinkable now.

Picture at https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/do ... =98435&t=1

june22a.jpg

[Jenise]

I've added my comments to yours, in color.

2018 Domaine Saint André de Figuière Côtes de Provence Atmosphère Extra Brut Methode Traditionelle – the starter wine was not in theme but from Provence and was a sparkling Cinsault/Grenache blend. It was yellow with pink hints, cherry in the nose but grapefruit on palate. Perfect way to start a tasting. I brought this. Not in theme but the closest, geographically speaking anyway, that I could get. My first impression was red apple, then ranier cherry followed by pink grapefruit.

2016 Jean-Claude Marsanne SJ blanc – hints of oak in the nose along with stone fruit and a nice floral element, clean finish. Stone fruit, well balanced, good weight but lithe, clean, almost delicate. I quoted you in my notes saying "beyond reproach".

2017 Coursodon SJ blanc Le Paradis Saint Pierre – a very slightly burnt lemon and butter nose (made me think of popcorn) balanced and with good length. A very heavy wine, with that burnt lemon thing Bill mentioned and a bit of bitter almond in the finish. A wine better apart than with food.

2011 Tardieu Laurent Hermitage blanc – one participant lacked a white SJ but offered a white Hermitage, How could I turn that down? 80% Marsanne and 20% Roussanne, this had a darker colour, notably more oak in the nose along with a delicate pear component, a slightly oily mouth feel, and very good length. First impression was struck match, oak shows but I didn't hate that, drinks like a Grand Cru Chablis, as Coop noted. I enjoyed it.

We then switched to the reds, and I was up first. I was a bit unsure about the wine I presented as it was from the last century, and I hadn’t tasted it for seven years.

1997 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave St. Joseph – still fairly dark, and right off the bat it showed an absolutely killer nose of mature syrah with a garrigue element and some raspberry, and with time some tapenade. Excellent wine in great shape and sadly, my last bottle. Nice that it went out in style. I'd point out that it's at peak and won't improve from here, but otherwise: what you said. Lovely, lovely wine.

2006 Saint Cosme SJ – dark wine with dark fruit nose and more oak than many. Nice cassis notes and smooth long finish. Nice wine. Yes, very nice. I don't think of St. Cosme as a modernist winery, but compared to the uber traditionalism of Chave and Gonon, it tilted in that direction while stopping well short of being what anyone would call "international". This is why I love these comparative tastings.

2010 Pierre Gonon SJ – we were fortunate to have a two bottle vertical of this wine. It was a dark wine showing a primarily herbal nose with some iron/blood, good fruit and length. Drinking really well now. My wine, and dear god was this good. No wonder these days people are saying there's Gonon, and then everybody else. I once had 18 bottles of this, now three, where the F word did they go?

2011 Pierre Gonon SJ – a very different presentation – pepper, spice and green herbal notes in the nose, similar weight and length as the 2010 but more evolved and ready. Agreed 100%. It also had an immediate salinity that wasn't in the '10.

2011 Domaine Faury SJ Vieilles Vignes – another blood/iron nose, a bit riper and more rustic than the Gonon. Still young and very decent but not up to the level of the Gonon. Lactic entry, sour cream, other round flavors, and a hint of salted caramel. I did not like.

We finished with a cheese wine that was ...interesting!

2015 Domaine des Miquettes SJ Madloba[/b] – bizarre label worthy of Randall Grahm at his best, and a very, very dark wine with a ripe sweet nose of black fruit and considerable tannin and terminal acidity and concentrated fruit on palate. Made in amphorae, this is a Rhone from Spinal Tap – ‘turned up to 11’ Had we tasted it blind, I am not sure that we would have gone straight to the Rhone. I picked up some pastrami notes in the nose after awhile. Having said all that, and despite the obvious youth, it was very drinkable now. You're kinder than me. Ripe fruit, tire shop, more like new than old world though not sweet, odd, completely lacking a sense of place. Love your call on the pastrami.

I didn't take notes, but here are my overall impressions. A very interesting and focused tasting, with some really lovely wines.

2018 Domaine Saint André de Figuière Côtes de Provence Atmosphère Extra Brut Methode Traditionelle – An interesting and unique sparkling, a 65/35% Cinsault/Grenache blend. Very clean and crisp, nice balance, great start to cleanse your palate.

2016 Jean-Claude Marsanne SJ blanc – Again, a fresh, nicely balanced marsanne, with just a kiss of oak and slight waxiness. A very clean style very well done in that style.

2017 Coursodon SJ blanc Le Paradis Saint Pierre – My wine, and I thought this was overwrought, a wannabe big and bold chardonnay. This is their top St Joseph blanc, oldest vines, most oak, etc. and right now it seems just too much of everything, with all the parts now fighting amongst each other. Great concentration, evident oak, maybe 5-10 years it will integrate better? But maybe not...

2011 Tardieu Laurent Hermitage blanc – This was a much better, balanced, oaked mainly marsanne (20% rousanne) wine than the last wine. The six extra years in the cellar might have helped, but this had more freshness, less oak and was drinking very well now.

Now to the reds...

1997 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave St. Joseph – Time was definitely a good thing with this wine. Most people thought this was at peak now, with a wonderful nose of all things syrah - olives, some meat, a bit of iron and redfruits, with still some ripe tannins at the end. Everything is wonderfully integrated here. Perhaps at peak, but this won't decline for a while. Wine of the tasting for me. Glad you found this, Bill!

2006 Saint Cosme SJ – At his time, St Cosme was big on the oak. This really showed on this wine, with a very oaked, modern interpretation of St Joseph, quite a difference from the previous, very traditional St Joseph. There was nothing wrong with this rich, fruit driven wine, but it was too modern and this didn't really speak to the region.

2010 Pierre Gonon SJ – This was more like it! A fairly ripe, rich version, but totally balanced, with lots of good savory and some herbal notes. My favorite of the two Gonons. As Bill stated, drinking very well now, but will last too.

2011 Pierre Gonon SJ – I also thought this was a little more herbal than the previous wine. Still very, very nice, and it was great to compare the two Gonons.

2011 Domaine Faury SJ Vieilles Vignes – Agree with Bill that this had lots of blood/iron nose, and was a bit riper and more rustic than the Gonons. There was a bit of a lactic/acidic note, but it seemed to dissipate with time. I think this will improve over time, and I liked it more than many others at the table.

2015 Domaine des Miquettes SJ Madloba – A natural St Joseph - très différent! Bill nailed the notes on this one. Not my style, but certainly interesting.

[Jenise]

Bill and John, was just entering notes for these on Cellar Tracker, and discovered this list of foods to pair with an 2011 Gonon. Thought you'd want to know:

Lam
Rype
Vilt
Fugl
Gås
Grillet vilt
Gryte
Hjort
Kremet saus
Lys Fugl

[David M. Bueker]

I sold most of my Gonon. Still have a few bottles (most importantly 3 bottles of the VV version), but it never hit my palate the same way it did for other folks.

[Jenise]

The VV--wow, those are unicorns! I most likely will never lay eyes on one.

Bill and John, was just entering notes for these on Cellar Tracker, and discovered this list of foods to pair with an 2011 Gonon. Thought you'd want to know:

Lam
Rype
Vilt
Fugl
Gås
Grillet vilt
Gryte
Hjort
Kremet saus
Lys Fugl

Damn, I was going to bring some Hjort!

[David M. Bueker]

The VV--wow, those are unicorns! I most likely will never lay eyes on one.

There was a time not so long ago that they cost $50. Old story…should have bought more.

The VV--wow, those are unicorns! I most likely will never lay eyes on one.

There was a time not so long ago that they cost $50. Old story…should have bought more.

Indeed. Although even then I thought the price and the hype was aggressive. Maybe I didn't study them enough, although now I'll never know. Still, lots of other wine out there, not losing any sleep over this one.

[David M. Bueker]

The VV--wow, those are unicorns! I most likely will never lay eyes on one.

There was a time not so long ago that they cost $50. Old story…should have bought more.

Indeed. Although even then I thought the price and the hype was aggressive. Maybe I didn't study them enough, although now I'll never know. Still, lots of other wine out there, not losing any sleep over this one.

There was zero hype over the 2006 until a bunch of folks had tasted it multiple times. Then it became a thing, but I had already bought a few of the 2007 by then. Now I look at them and wonder if selling is the best action. They are not actually $1000 wines.

$1000? Wow. Insane!

[David M. Bueker]

$1000? Wow. Insane!

Yes. The “unicorn wine” prices have gotten totally out of hand pretty much across the board.

The irony of it all is that many of the people that are inclined to shell out ridionculous numbers of dollars for wines like this probably wouldn't know the difference if the bottles were full of Heart Burgundy that someone they thought of as a wine authority raved over.

Wine trophies. Contributes to the thriving counterfeit Bordeaux industry in China.

As it happens, these Gonons are very good, but now most Northern Rhone fans aren't going to be able to find them to taste.

[David M. Bueker]

Despite the pricing, Gonon seems to be mostly going to people who are actual fans of the wines, rather than fans of prestige. At least a lot of it is. The VV is just rare as hen’s teeth, with only 4 vintages ever released so far.

The irony of it all is that many of the people that are inclined to shell out ridionculous numbers of dollars for wines like this probably wouldn't know the difference if the bottles were full of Heart Burgundy that someone they thought of as a wine authority raved over.

I know someone who did exactly that--served Hearty Burgundy in a trophy wine bottles to a group of trophy wine hunters. He had difficulty suppressing his laughter on hearing their enthusiastic comments.

Wine trophies. Contributes to the thriving counterfeit Bordeaux industry in China.

Indeed. I don't know if it's just an urban legend, but allegedly some hyper-wealthy Chinese collect wine as a status symbol. They don't really like the stuff and drink their Petrus mixed with cola.

-Paul W.

[David M. Bueker]

The irony of it all is that many of the people that are inclined to shell out ridionculous numbers of dollars for wines like this probably wouldn't know the difference if the bottles were full of Heart Burgundy that someone they thought of as a wine authority raved over.

I know someone who did exactly that--served Hearty Burgundy in a trophy wine bottles to a group of trophy wine hunters. He had difficulty suppressing his laughter on hearing their enthusiastic comments.

Wine trophies. Contributes to the thriving counterfeit Bordeaux industry in China.

Indeed. I don't know if it's just an urban legend, but allegedly some hyper-wealthy Chinese collect wine as a status symbol. They don't really like the stuff and drink their Petrus mixed with cola.

-Paul W.

The collecting Petrus isn’t urban legend. The mixing it with cola is.