Mandatory sweetness labeling for Alsace?

[David M. Bueker]

Maybe it is really going to happen.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 65846.html

[Robin Garr]

It would sure be helpful!

This is good news, if applied consistently. Why not make it mandatory for all whites produced in the EU?
One less subject for my rants!

The only quibble I have is that no one knows what the heck Moelleux is. I mean, people in Alsace know, and we know, but I doubt even your typical French wine drinker knows. Still, overall it's very sensible. Just goes to show that to create a truly terrible labeling scheme requires a German.

The four terms in that article are the French EU-defined sweetness levels that are approved for labels on still wines, and have equivalent terms in other EU languages. The French ones often figure on Loire wines for appellations that allow different levels.

In English they are dry, medium-dry, medium and sweet.

I agree, why not make them mandatory for all white wines. In fact why not for reds too? Or maybe dry could be assumed if none of the sweeter terms applied?

I'm sure Champagne producers would object but I think their sweetness categories need reform. I wonder how many people have been suckered into buying a so-called dry Champagne to discover it was quite sweet.

The fly in the ointment here is that RS doesn't tell the whole story. What people want to know, generally, is how sweet does a particular wine taste.

In training sessions for competitive winetasting, we have made up sugar solutions that were approximately double the RS of another one, yet the blind tasters all chose the sweeter wine as being the less sweet wine simply because we had elevated the acidity on that one.

It is a better guide than nothing, though.

[David M. Bueker]

The fly in the ointment here is that RS doesn't tell the whole story. What people want to know, generally, is how sweet does a particular wine taste.

In training sessions for competitive winetasting, we have made up sugar solutions that were approximately double the RS of another one, yet the blind tasters all chose the sweeter wine as being the less sweet wine simply because we had elevated the acidity on that one.

It is a better guide than nothing, though.

But that’s why the scale includes relationships to acidity levels for the drier grades. Or did you not see that?

The four terms in that article are the French EU-defined sweetness levels that are approved for labels on still wines, and have equivalent terms in other EU languages. The French ones often figure on Loire wines for appellations that allow different levels.

In English they are dry, medium-dry, medium and sweet.

IMO "medium" is a poor substitute linguistically for "moelleux", which better conveys the richness. But as the Italians say uniquely well in their language "translation = betrayal". Lately the English press reported that President Macron said that he wants to "piss-off" the unvaccinated. He actually said "emmerder", which has a quite different flavour!

But that’s why the scale includes relationships to acidity levels for the drier grades. Or did you not see that?

I had missed that, David - thanks for pointing it out.

This would mainly seem to suggest that many producers in Alsace need considerable help selling their wines. I have noticed in my neck of the woods that Alsace wines are much fewer in number compared to 10 years ago. I hope this works for them! It seems like a good idea, but the 'mellow' term will cause confusion in English speaking countries...

It seems like a good idea, but the 'mellow' term will cause confusion in English speaking countries...

I'm not sure where the article got the word "mellow". I'd guess it was a dodgy translation from the French. It just sounds wrong to me.

As far as I know, like it or not, the equivalent English term is "medium" or "medium sweet".

It seems like a good idea, but the 'mellow' term will cause confusion in English speaking countries...

I'm not sure where the article got the word "mellow". I'd guess it was a dodgy translation from the French. It just sounds wrong to me.

As far as I know, like it or not, the equivalent English term is "medium" or "medium sweet".

I can confirm that "mellow" is a poor translation of "moelleux" when applied to wine but I can't think of one English word which would fit. "Medium sweet" is the perhaps the least of evils.

I don't know the American market, but in Europe I do think that many consumers (including me) have become cautious after finding some Alsatian whites unexpectedly sweet for the food pairing. The same goes, but perhaps to a less extent, for Loire and German whites. This measure should help.

Another commercial problem for Alsace may be the multiplicity of grape varieties which means that the wines have a less clear regional identity than, say, Bordeaux, Burgundy or the Rhône. A similar factor may be holding back Languedoc, compounded by the fact that many producers there are now working outside the AOP rules. Wine geeks are happy to navigate through this sort of thing but others....?

[David M. Bueker]

Tim,

In the USA the flute bottle is death. It’s not about food pairing. It’s about flute equaling sweet, even for bone dry wines.

Tim,

In the USA the flute bottle is death. It’s not about food pairing. It’s about flute equaling sweet, even for bone dry wines.

Perhaps the Alsatians should use Bordeaux or Burgundy bottles for their dry wines in the US market? The Germans and Austrians too.

The fly in the ointment here is that RS doesn't tell the whole story. What people want to know, generally, is how sweet does a particular wine taste.

In training sessions for competitive winetasting, we have made up sugar solutions that were approximately double the RS of another one, yet the blind tasters all chose the sweeter wine as being the less sweet wine simply because we had elevated the acidity on that one.

It is a better guide than nothing, though.

Yes, I have found that to be even more true with the de-alcoholized wines I've been trying lately. "By the numbers" they have, say, 10 g/L of sugar, which would normally be detectable as "halbtrocken" level of sweetness, or at least a distinct lack of austerity. But ethanol itself has its own inherent sweetness, even though it's not a sugar per se. I did some bench blending up to 25 g/L and that was barely off-dry, even though for an alcoholized wine that would be well into the fruity style. And that's before we get into talking about pH vs. total acidity.

I know Americans talk dry and drink sweet, but it really would be helpful to have some labeling. Preferably supported by tasting, at least for larger production wines.

Another commercial problem for Alsace may be the multiplicity of grape varieties which means that the wines have a less clear regional identity than, say, Bordeaux, Burgundy or the Rhône.

Less regional identity perhaps - arguably - but Alsace's varietal labelling is usually cited as an advantage. And it is often, Reisling, Pinot Gris, Gewurtz or "Pinot Blanc".

In Rhône in particular there must be at least as many varieties, but often in more or less complex blends of varieties that don't feature on the label

On another tack...

I agree that Alsace wines don't have the presence they deserve in some export markets (certainly the UK, and I presume the US too), but is that really a massive problem for Alsace producers? I have never got the sense that they can't sell their wines. Presumably a lot is sold locally in France and Germany? And I got the impression that a lot of the marketing effort is directed Eastwards.

Genuine question - not a rhetorical point

Another commercial problem for Alsace may be the multiplicity of grape varieties which means that the wines have a less clear regional identity than, say, Bordeaux, Burgundy or the Rhône.

Less regional identity perhaps - arguably - but Alsace's varietal labelling is usually cited as an advantage. And it is often, Reisling, Pinot Gris, Gewurtz or "Pinot Blanc".

In Rhône in particular there must be at least as many varieties, but often in more or less complex blends of varieties that don't feature on the label

Steve, I think that it is precisely the number of varietal labellings which somewhat dilutes the Alsatian regional identity, at least for European consumers. Yes, there is a large number of grape varieties allowed in S.Rhône (is it 13 at CndP?) but mostly they are Grenache dominated blends with a backing of Syrah and Mourvèdre which assures a certain consistency of style together with regional terroir influences. The same goes for Bordeaux, mostly dominated by either CabSauv or Merlot, with a rather lower number of supporting varieties.

On another tack...

I agree that Alsace wines don't have the presence they deserve in some export markets (certainly the UK, and I presume the US too), but is that really a massive problem for Alsace producers? I have never got the sense that they can't sell their wines. Presumably a lot is sold locally in France and Germany? And I got the impression that a lot of the marketing effort is directed Eastwards.

Genuine question - not a rhetorical point

The good Alsatian producers certainly can sell their wines in France and in the rest of Europe but, if they were more in demand in Anglosphere and beyond, they would almost certainly command higher prices and enrich their producers. Compare that to Burgundy where the prices for the best producers have become ridiculous in spite of the premox risk with the whites. Personally I'm quite happy that it should stay that way because it enables me to afford an Alsatian + German + Loire + Jura of equivalent quality to GC Burgundy from time to time.

[David M. Bueker]

I have to say that I find it a little disingenuous that too many varieties is an impediment to Alsace in the EU. They have been making the same wines for eons. I don’t buy that it’s an issue.

Sweetness I will accept. Varieties, no.

I have to say that I find it a little disingenuous that too many varieties is an impediment to Alsace in the EU. They have been making the same wines for eons. I don’t buy that it’s an issue.

Sweetness I will accept. Varieties, no.

It's my observation and that of some others that Alsatian wines are not as popular in France and French speaking parts of Belgium as their quality warrants and the choice here in Normandy is not great. That doesn't apply to serious and knowledgable wine lovers but more to the general public; perhaps the French equivalent of Americans who are put off by the flute bottle. Vins de cépage (= varietal wines) have a downmarket image in France and it may play a role. As for Germany and further north and east, I don't have enough experience to have a view.