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WTN: Niagara Fell

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WTN: Niagara Fell

by Jenise » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:43 pm

While watching the golf final round in Vegas yesterday (congrats, Rory!):

2018 Redstone Chardonnay, Limestone Vineyard, Beamsville Niagara/Ontario
Took a chance on this unknown at a BC wine store because "limestone", this chardonnay lovers favorite thing, and Niagra from which we rarely get to sample wines. A disappointment: sunny Macon-ish fruit that's cheerfully ripe and acidic all at once is cloaked in toasted oak such that the limestone character, if indeed it was really there, is obliterated. And then oxidated flavors show up in the second glass. This wine is so unknown it's not even in the CT database.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: WTN: Niagra Fell

by Ted Richards » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:38 pm

Jenise wrote:2018 Red Stone Chardonnay, Limestone Vineyard, Beamsville Niagra/Ontario

Redstone has the same owner (Moray Tawse) as Tawse winery (which does produce good Chardonnay and Pinot Noir). As far as I can tell, the emphasis at Tawse is more Burgundian-style wines (in fact Moray Tawse also has a joint venture with Pascal Marchand in Burgundy), whereas Redstone is more Bordeaux oriented, although they also make Chardonnay, Viognier, Gewurztraminer, and others.

Personally, I quite like Tawse wines, but so far I haven't been impressed with Redstone's. Redstone does have a nice restaurant, though, if you're ever in the area.

BTW, it's Niagara, not Niagra :D
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Re: WTN: Niagara Fell

by Jenise » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:48 pm

Ted, every other Niagara chardonnay (thanks for the spellcheck) I've had were very Burgundian and that's what I hoped for here, especially with a "Limestone vineyard". Puligny Montrachet here I come, or so I thought. :) Thanks for the additional information.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: WTN: Niagra Fell

by John S » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:13 pm

Yes, this is a second label, and the wines are all from non-estate sources I think. There is some great chardonnay and riesling being made in Ontario now, and I tend to stick to the limestone vineyards and regions as well. Bachelder is probably the top producer and winemaker for chardonnay at this time.
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Re: WTN: Niagra Fell

by Jenise » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:23 pm

All Ontario chards I've had were terrific. What I would hope for and never buy California again if I could get them kind of terrific. But not this one.
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Re: WTN: Niagra Fell

by Ted Richards » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:00 pm

John S wrote:Yes, this is a second label, and the wines are all from non-estate sources I think. There is some great chardonnay and riesling being made in Ontario now, and I tend to stick to the limestone vineyards and regions as well. Bachelder is probably the top producer and winemaker for chardonnay at this time.

Strictly speaking, Redstone isn't a second label, it's a second winery with the same ownership, but with its own winemaker, winery, vineyards (I think), and emphasis on Bordeaux style, rather than Burgundy style. To me personally, other than the different emphasis, it might as well be a second label.

There are some other great Chardonnay producers in Ontario besides Bachelder (his best is "Wismer Wingfield Ouest"):
  • Clos Jordanne "Le Grand Clos" (a separately owned winery, but Bachelder was the founding wine maker up to 2009, and since 2017)
  • Queylus Grand Réserve (Bachelder was the founding winemaker and may still consult there, Kelly Mason is the winemaker now)
  • The Farm (Kelly Mason was the winemaker up until 2021)
  • Cloudsley single vineyard Chardonnays
  • On Seven (I haven't tried any of my bottles yet, but they get great reviews)
Other very good producers, in my experience (and I'm undoubtedly missing some I haven't tried yet):
  • Hidden Bench, especially the Tête de Cuvée (best) and Felseck Vineyard (2018 Felseck was Best In Show at Decanter World Wine Awards)
  • Mason Vineyard (not yet, but Kelly Mason is the winemaker for Queylus, was for The Farm until 2021, and I bet she'll produce a very good one)
  • Tawse Quarry Road (best) and Robyn's Block
  • Flat Rock Cellars "The Rusty Shed"
  • Leaning Post Senchuck Vineyard
  • Westcott "Butler's Grant" Vineyard (but you have to join their wine club to buy it)
  • Rosehall Run "JCR", in Prince Edward County
Thomas Bachelder is a very interesting person - as well as being responsible for arguably Ontario's finest Pinot Noir and Chardonnay wines - winemaker at Clos Jordanne, Queylus and Bachelder, and consultant at a few other wineries - his goal is to do for Niagara what the monks did for Burgundy - delineate the finest vineyards and, if possible, personally make wine from them. He's a fascinating speaker too, if you get the chance to hear him hold forth. Interestingly, he used to make wines in Burgundy and Oregon under the Bachelder label, but has given them up because he can't make the best Burgundy or Oregon wines (because he can't get the best grapes), but he can make the best Ontario wines.

By the way, for those interested in following Ontario (and occasionally BC) wines, I highly recommend https://winesinniagara.com/, with lots of reviews of the better Ontario and occasionally BC wines, and features on wineries.
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Re: WTN: Niagra Fell

by Ted Richards » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:35 pm

Jenise wrote:All Ontario chards I've had were terrific. What I would hope for and never buy California again if I could get them kind of terrific. But not this one.

It seems to be legal to buy wine from an Ontario winery and have it shipped to BC. So if you know someone in BC who'd be willing to receive the wine and hold it for you (like perhaps a certain WLDG member we both know :D ) you could do it. Unfortunately shipments from anyone other than a winery is not, otherwise I'd offer to send you some. I believe I could legally BRING wine to BC the next time I come (won't be for a few years, though). And I do have a stock of proper foam-lined shipping boxes. It would probably cost something like $50CDN (~$40US) per case airline baggage fees.
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Re: WTN: Niagara Fell

by Jenise » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:59 pm

Of the ten Ontario chards I've had, two Pearl Morisettes were arguably the best followed by two Norman Hardies--different vintages/vineyards all and different occasions. Yet each was consistently excellent no matter what. Ted, I don't even see Norman on your list. Did have a Bachelder too, btw, in there, and it was very good.
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Re: WTN: Niagara Fell

by Ted Richards » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:05 pm

Jenise wrote:Of the ten Ontario chards I've had, two Pearl Morisettes were arguably the best followed by two Norman Hardies--different vintages/vineyards all and different occasions. Yet each was consistently excellent no matter what. Ted, I don't even see Norman on your list. Did have a Bachelder too, btw, in there, and it was very good.


I've never had a Norman Hardie chardonnay nor many others from Prince Edward County. We were planning a trip to PEC last month, but COVID got in the way. Probably next year. I'm not familiar with Pearl Morisette wines either, so no notes. I've heard they are very good.
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Re: WTN: Niagra Fell

by John S » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:27 pm

Ted Richards wrote:There are some other great Chardonnay producers in Ontario besides Bachelder (his best is "Wismer Wingfield Ouest"):
  • Clos Jordanne "Le Grand Clos" (a separately owned winery, but Bachelder was the founding wine maker up to 2009, and since 2017)
  • Queylus Grand Réserve (Bachelder was the founding winemaker and may still consult there, Kelly Mason is the winemaker now)
  • The Farm (Kelly Mason was the winemaker up until 2021)
  • Cloudsley single vineyard Chardonnays
  • On Seven (I haven't tried any of my bottles yet, but they get great reviews)
Other very good producers, in my experience (and I'm undoubtedly missing some I haven't tried yet):
  • Hidden Bench, especially the Tête de Cuvée (best) and Felseck Vineyard (2018 Felseck was Best In Show at Decanter World Wine Awards)
  • Mason Vineyard (not yet, but Kelly Mason is the winemaker for Queylus, was for The Farm until 2021, and I bet she'll produce a very good one)
  • Tawse Quarry Road (best) and Robyn's Block
  • Flat Rock Cellars "The Rusty Shed"
  • Leaning Post Senchuck Vineyard
  • Westcott "Butler's Grant" Vineyard (but you have to join their wine club to buy it)
  • Rosehall Run "JCR", in Prince Edward County
Thomas Bachelder is a very interesting person - as well as being responsible for arguably Ontario's finest Pinot Noir and Chardonnay wines - winemaker at Clos Jordanne, Queylus and Bachelder, and consultant at a few other wineries - his goal is to do for Niagara what the monks did for Burgundy - delineate the finest vineyards and, if possible, personally make wine from them. He's a fascinating speaker too, if you get the chance to hear him hold forth. Interestingly, he used to make wines in Burgundy and Oregon under the Bachelder label, but has given them up because he can't make the best Burgundy or Oregon wines (because he can't get the best grapes), but he can make the best Ontario wines.

By the way, for those interested in following Ontario (and occasionally BC) wines, I highly recommend https://winesinniagara.com/, with lots of reviews of the better Ontario and occasionally BC wines, and features on wineries.


Great list, Ted, I agree with all your recommendations. Hidden Bench in particular are right up there; indeed, I think they are one of if not the strongest overall wine producer in ON, for me especially for riesling, chardonnay and pinot noir, but Tawse would also be up there as well. I would also add 2027 Cellars to your list of high quality chardonnay producers. His Wismer-Foxcroft is excellent (as is the W-F riesling) and great value. Wines in Niagara is indeed a great source of info.

ON wineries can ship to BC, I have done that a few times. Not all wineries will ship to BC, though, for some reason.

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