Making sense of prices for left bank red Bordeaux

Deleted because of Jenise.

The top Bordeaux estates have been priced beyond what I'm willing to pay for decades, ever since the Russian and Chinese oligarchs entered the market. I remember thinking at the time that now I know how the British must have felt when Bordeaux prices skyrocketed after Parker 's review of the 1982 vintage.

-Paul W.

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[Jenise]

and to me beyond all sense for a normal purchaser..

And fantasizing about prices down to the .01 of a dollar as you do is also beyond all sense for a normal purchaser. And here we go again, but scores aren't absolute. The quality of wine isn't a scientific measurement. Wine's a living thing; it changes, affected by preparation, climate, age, storage and the moods of the people who drink them. The difference between 96.5 and 97 points is too stupid to even contemplate. If you actually read other people's tasting notes, you'd realize that almost no one else here scores wines--and there's a very good reason for that.

I know how the British must have felt when Bordeaux prices skyrocketed .

Indeed - when I started drink, Bordeaux left bank was my love (and still is), we drank a lot of classed growth claret. It wasn't that expensive.

Since those days I've bought less prestigious (i.e. less expensive) Chateaux, plus an EP case of Ch Batailley 5eme every year (up to this year because of anno domini)

Even after Parker's review of 1982, I was able to buy a bottle of 1982 Leoville-Las Cases for $34.97 in about 1986.

Yes, but pre-Parker it would have cost half that.

For a lot of the classified growths, the second wines offer better value. And in many cases they're made like traditional Bordeaux, unlike the Chateaux's first wines, which these days are all too often Parker-pandering overoaked fruit bombs.

-Paul W.

Deleted, because of Jenise.

Richard, I am sure you are correct that there is a relationship between high profile critic scores and prices, perhaps one that is even measurable down to the 0.01 point level.

However, you would probably be mistaken in assuming that is also a relationship between 'quality' and 'price', as mentioned in your first post.

[Jenise]

Jenise, you are not entirely correct. Also at the top end the difference is several hundreds of dollars per bottle beyond what would be reasonable.

Actually, I believe I am entirely correct. I know what happens at the top end. But anyone buying top end Bdx strictly on the basis of critic's points is not a normal purchaser and you yourself set "normal purchaser" as the parameter, so why keep rehashing the same thing? You're not buying young top end Bordeaux and neither is anyone else here that I know of. But if and when we do we'll buy based on something other than some complex formula involving critic points.

]enise, some other members do occasionally use scores. I score only red Bdx,/Bdx. blends and buy such wines based on my own score and the price.

[Jenise]

I've been a moderator here for 20 years and I read virtually every post. So with some authority I can offer you: no, scores don't matter here. There's nothing wrong with the fact that scores matter to you, of course: I'm just saying don't expect the subject to appeal to anyone else. You've posted over and over on the topic with very little feedback, and this is why.

Deleted, because of Jenise.

Jenise, as far as I can tell, on this forum this topic has been viewed more than any other from May 18th on.

Viewed far more? maybe folks wondering what you will come up with next!!

[Jenise]

Jenise, as far as I can tell, on this forum this topic has been viewed more than any other from May 18th on.

That's not a body count. Every time one of us comes back to read another new post, we log a view. It's only the same 7 or 8 people seeing it again and again.

Deleted, because of Jenise.

Deleted, because of Jenise.

[Jenise]

Thank you Richard. I'll delete the other thread now.

Deleted.

While I always look at the QPR (Quality Price Ratio) I have also always hated the 100 point scale. The difference between a 100 point and 98 point wine could be the glass it is served in, the temp of the wine, the time of day or the direction you are facing when you drink it.

I feel like wine pricing in the extreme higher end is out of whack, but it is also out of whack when it comes to most luxury items. The difference in price between a very nice sports car and a Lamborghini is huge. Same with Clothes, purses, Scotch, etc...

I still buy some Left Bank Bordeaux, but instead of the higher classified growths it is often Calon Segur a 3rd growth which I love and can be found under $100. I also buy Château Potensac quite often. Is it as good? No, but its pretty close at a fraction of the price.

Most of the biggest names in Bordeaux have priced themselves much beyond where I am comfortable, but I also feel like there are tons of value wines coming out of the region that I actually really enjoy.

At 85 points or a bit more, bargains abound, while at the high end, especially 97+ points, red Bdx. is absolutely ridiculously over-priced.

Sure. But you seemed interested in hashing out the difference between 98 and 97 and 96 point wines. Which may correspond to a difference in price depending on the critic. But, my point was that those are not necessarily differences in quality.

Deleted.

I feel like wine pricing in the extreme higher end is out of whack, but it is also out of whack when it comes to most luxury items. The difference in price between a very nice sports car and a Lamborghini is huge. Same with Clothes, purses, Scotch, etc...

When you get into these sorts of items at the highest end, the people who buy them are not buying them because of their intrinsic quality. They are buying them as status symbols to show off their wealth. For them, the more expensive it is, the better. I'll wager that these days most first growth Bordeaux is bought by people who don't even like wine.

-Paul W.

When you get into these sorts of items at the highest end, the people who buy them are not buying them because of their intrinsic quality. They are buying them as status symbols to show off their wealth. For them, the more expensive it is, the better.

That's definitely part of it. But there is also the fact that some people have enough money to be insensitive to small differentials of several hundreds/thousands of dollars. Even if paying $1000 for a blue chip producer will only get you marginally more quality than a $100 very good producer, it will still be worth it for people who blow their noses with 100 dollar bills.