Sweet Victory?

For the WA wine fans.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-rele ... -Area.html

[Jenise]

This guy Kevin Pogue sure knows his geology; and he's responsible for the plethora of new AVAs here. I hope it ends up mattering; I just don't think the public's into it. I'm not sure that the differences that are so important to his scientific mind resonate with the vineyards in ways that will stand out as separate from differences that could be explained away by differences in grape choice and vineyard management.

[David M. Bueker]

This guy Kevin Pogue sure knows his geology; and he's responsible for the plethora of new AVAs here. I hope it ends up mattering; I just don't think the public's into it. I'm not sure that the differences that are so important to his scientific mind resonate with the vineyards in ways that will stand out as separate from differences that could be explained away by differences in grape choice and vineyard management.

The proliferation of AVAs and sub-AVAs in recent years seems to only matter to the wineries and the wine geeks. The wineries love it, as they can have something that stands out. The wine geeks love it because they get yet another detail to obsess over. The general consumer, as well as folks in the distribution chain, either don't care or hate it. They both end up wondering whatever happened to the Winery XYZ Columbia Valley Syrah when it gets relabeled to take advantage of the new AVA.

In California, David Ramey ran into this when he started labeling his Sonoma Coast Chardonnay as Fort Ross Seaview (a more specific AVA within Sonoma Coast). His Japanese importer insisted that Sonoma Coast still be on the label, as that was what was recognized by their clientele.

[Jenise]

I'm definitely someone who cares, but at the same time I don't want to have to become a geologist to understand it. And I know that even among Washington residents, most haven't been to these places. They know Walla Walla, Yakima, Lake Chelan, and here. They may know that Red Mountain is supposed to be a big deal for cabernet but few know exactly where it is or have ever got off the highway to actually see it.

In a way it might come down to the fact that since there are really no wineries there of the kind you can visit to speak of or other nearby recreational opportunity people would relate to, there's no There there. Nobody's been to Candy Mountain, nobody goes to Candy Mountain. It's just a random hill among the grapes in an agricultural area off to the right when you're heading north toward Yakima from the Tri-Cities. And there are a lot of random hills among the grapes. IOW, it's not relatable, even to WA residents. At least in California, travellers in the Sonoma area will know and relate to Fort Ross (even I do).

Will be interesting to see what happens, though.

I don't know how many wine consumers view AVAs as I do. I totally ignor them because they are definitely not appellations. They are primarily fake marketing terms. An appellation is quality control that tells what grapes can be grown, how densely they are planted, required alcohol levels, amount of harvest, etc. An AOP tells you so much about what is in the bottle. An AVA has no quality-control, and it tells you nothing. Unless they would start putting some quality control on an AVA, it is pretty much a joke.

[Jenise]

I don't know how many wine consumers view AVAs as I do. I totally ignor them because they are definitely not appellations. They are primarily fake marketing terms. An appellation is quality control that tells what grapes can be grown, how densely they are planted, required alcohol levels, amount of harvest, etc. An AOP tells you so much about what is in the bottle. An AVA has no quality-control, and it tells you nothing. Unless they would start putting some quality control on an AVA, it is pretty much a joke.

An American AVA is not equivalent to a French appellation. But fake marketing term? Joke? No way. Where a grape is grown matters. Elevation matters. Soil composition matters. Hours of sunlight matter. I just don't think most consumers want to think about all that--you kinda proved my point.

Agree about AVA vs. appellation. I have several friends who are rather wine-savvy but between the average consumer and geek/connoisseur/pick your term level. And recently I noted that a wine they chose & liked was from a certain AVA. They replied: what is an AVA?

So a bit of education was done, and they appreciated it as one way to assist them in choosing wine. But just one factor for them to consider.

Appellation is so much more....

And my wish list includes changing the overall 75% of wine on label of one grape, so that 25% can be cheap blending grapes. More conformity to European standards would help. 85% minimum vs. 75% can make a difference. JMHO.

But does an average consumer really care? Unlikely. In my area folks often just go to Costco, see what's there under Kirkland label, and buy a case of wine with favorite grape. Two friends do this with Chardonnay for the wife, Merlot for the husband, and they're happy. And if they just enjoy wine, why not?

[David M. Bueker]

I don't know how many wine consumers view AVAs as I do. I totally ignor them because they are definitely not appellations. They are primarily fake marketing terms. An appellation is quality control that tells what grapes can be grown, how densely they are planted, required alcohol levels, amount of harvest, etc. An AOP tells you so much about what is in the bottle. An AVA has no quality-control, and it tells you nothing. Unless they would start putting some quality control on an AVA, it is pretty much a joke.

Have you ever looked at the process and requirements for getting a new AVA? It's not fake marketing. It's different than the EU AOC process, but European wines have a different history.

That being said, I can imagine it's not worth it to most folks to get deep into the specifics of the sub-AVAs of a larger region (e.g. Sonoma Coast has a bunch), but it's not just marketing. The soils, climate and resulting wines are in fact diffferent.

AOP and AOC are not quite the same thing. AOP does not replace AOC. (But than again an AOC wine is an AOP and not all AOP wines are AOC). IMHO AOP is almost identical to our AVA. EU AOP wine comes from a designated wine growing region. EU AOC designation protects (governs how a particular wine is to be made) a particular style of wine produced in a given wine growing region.

Salute

AOC and AOP are (in France) different names for the same thing. AOC is the original French name, which was put into a quality wine category by the EU. But the EU then established its own name for the category, which is (optionally for now) used across the EU. It is Protected Designation of Origin or PDO in the English language, and AOP in French. In France AOP names map directly onto their AOCs, in Italy DOP can be used for DOC and DOCG names, etc. So Bordeaux AOC and Bordeaux AOP are both wines made to the same set of rules, which include area and method of production.

Similarly, Protected Geograhical Indication is the EU term for the Vins de Pays level of wine and, like PDO, also applies to other products.

This is the best explanation I could find in English
https://www.wine-searcher.com/wine-label-eu

I struggle to see the big deal about the new EU terminology, and until it replaces the country-specific terms, it merely serves to add yet another complication to labelling. But if/when it does replace them it will provide more uniformity across countries (removing the distinction between DOC and DOCG in Italy for example) and across products (PGI wiil be for food and drink, while VdP is wine-only).

AOC was established to control and protect a given style of wine produced in a given area. Once that style of wine can no longer be produced it becomes an AOP ("Area of Protection") wine.

Salute

AOC was established to control and protect a given style of wine produced in a given area. Once that style of wine can no longer be produced it becomes an AOP ("Area of Protection") wine.

In the context of French wine, AOP is Appellation d'Origine Protégée, and the meaning is as I described in my last post.

But I see no point in arguing further. We all have Google at our disposal if we want to check facts.