The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

8088

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:01 pm

JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by TomHill » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:13 pm

JasonHaas has a very nice blog post on the trial & tribulations of Syrah over the yrs:
JasonBlog: Syrah's Wild Ride....

It's much the same story PatrickComisky told in his book on US Rhones, 'cept it covers the last few yrs & suggests a comeback of the Syrah market as folks are more circumspect in where they are planting it now.

I have, of course, followed Syrah from the very start. The first Syrah was the JosephPhelps NapaVlly '73 (there actually was one afore that, but not labeled as Syrah I believe). Made from badly virused ChristianBros vines, it pretty much set the Syrah market back for some 10 yrs.
When I first visited GaryEberle about '78 or so, I asked if I could taste his Syrah (and Barbera) at EstrellaRiver. He gave me this wierd look as to say "What kinda nut case do I have here??" But it gave the first hints, to me, that Syrah had real potential for greatness in Calif. But only hints.
The first truly great Calif Syrahs came in 1982 when RandallGraham and BobLindquist made Syrah from EstrellaRiver grapes, AdamTolmach from Oakview grapes, and John MacCready from ElDorado grapes. The SierraVista was the one that survived the longest.
Actually the first great Calif Syrah was made by GeorgeBursick at McDowellVllyVnyds, from GibsonRanch grapes, in the late '70's. But it was labeled as PetiteSirah because that's what they thought the grapes actually were. It wasn't until the '80 vintage that they identified it as Syrah and labeled it as such.
Jason credits reviews of Syrah by RobertParker in 2002 and the WineSpectator in 1989 as building the growth of the Syrah market. Actually, CharlieOlken & EarlSinger had started reviewing Syrah some 4-5 yrs earlier, but their impact on the market was marginal at best.

Anyway, Jason's blog post on the ups & downs, and now ups again, of Syrah is a good read.
Tom
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34943

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by David M. Bueker » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:50 pm

Syrah is just red Riesling when it comes to commercial success. There are blips of enthusiasm, followed by long stretches of apathy.

It makes no sense to me.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43599

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by Jenise » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:14 pm

Living in Washington has retrained my palate to not just embrace syrah but truly love it. I'm more likely to reach for it than cabernet these days as do many. But when it comes to special occasions and trophy stuff, cab is king and until there are as many women making the household wine decisions as there are men...well, don't hold your breath.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

SteveEdmunds

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

985

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:05 am

Location

Berkeley, CA

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by SteveEdmunds » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:02 pm

David; I quoted you earlier today, when I was talking with Ann Kraemer at Shake Ridge, the Red Riesling quote, and she thought that was hilarious!
I don't know just how I'm supposed to play this scene, but I ain't afraid to learn...
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9425

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by Rahsaan » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:24 am

Jenise wrote:I'm more likely to reach for it than cabernet these days as do many. But when it comes to special occasions and trophy stuff, cab is king and until there are as many women making the household wine decisions as there are men...well, don't hold your breath.


Two interesting points here. One is that syrah as an everyday wine is bad for sales? There are only a handful of special occasions per year, but everyday sales is the route to profit. Wasn't that always the problem with Champagne, trying to convince consumers to buy more than two bottles per year?!

And you think cabernet is more appealing to male consumers while syrah is more appealing to female consumers? Sturdier cabernet tannins tap into masculinity?
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34943

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by David M. Bueker » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:49 am

SteveEdmunds wrote:David; I quoted you earlier today, when I was talking with Ann Kraemer at Shake Ridge, the Red Riesling quote, and she thought that was hilarious!


Glad I could provide a hearty laugh!
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43599

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by Jenise » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:12 am

Rahsaan wrote:Two interesting points here. One is that syrah as an everyday wine is bad for sales? There are only a handful of special occasions per year, but everyday sales is the route to profit. Wasn't that always the problem with Champagne, trying to convince consumers to buy more than two bottles per year?!

And you think cabernet is more appealing to male consumers while syrah is more appealing to female consumers? Sturdier cabernet tannins tap into masculinity?


Let me start with the last question: yes kind of and yes definitely. And I wasn't including geeks like you in that statement but general population impressions. I don't believe that syrah isn't appealing to men, obviously it is; but at the ground-floor grocery-store level ($15-$30) women are more likely to embrace syrah's typically softer tannins and floral aromas. I hear it all the time in these neighborhood tastings I do--12 a year for the past 12 years--women want a perception of sweetness and "smooth". For the majority of the men, big is better and tannins define bigness.

But still, I firmly believe that without a man around to shape their thinking, no question: the majority of women would prefer syrah.

There's more general excitement about syrah in Washington because of the excellent array of possibilities. Outside our state, I don't see the same enthusiasm.

And then over there at the other end of the spectrum from grocery store buyers are the other end of clueless, the people who just buy names and points. And there Cabernet is king. And as long as it's the most expensive variety on restaurant menus ($$$=best!) and wine store shelves, as long as it's what someone's invariably talking about when citing 100 pointers (of whom males are the primary buyers), the perception across the marketplace that syrah is more ordinary, less exciting, less desirable, will remain.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9425

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by Rahsaan » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:36 am

I have very limited knowledge of how the general wine public operates, but I can see that. The stereotype is that off-dry wines and rose appeal to women. Or perhaps white wine as opposed to red wine. But not sure how much those stereotypes hold up, and there are probably lots of subgroups. Within the subset of people who like big bold red wines, I guess I can see how there might be a gender split between syrah and cabernet.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43599

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by Jenise » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:05 am

I agree that offdry and rose have much stronger appeal among women--not that all roses are sweet but it really does go back to the sweet thing I mentioned. Women made hits out of Blue Nun and Sutter Home White Zin, after all. But as a category that's really "women who wouldn't otherwise drink wine at all" or what I jokingly call "mother-in-law wine". As in, "My wife's mother doesn't really drink but we need to have something for her to sip on when she comes for Thanksgiving...." And women think pink is pretty.

Women who enjoy wine and regularly purchase it for home consumption are a different class of drinker/buyer. And yet it's still my observation that uninfluenced a significant majority would choose syrah over cabernet. Or at least, give them two glasses of dry red wine blind, and 4 out of 5 will prefer the fruitier of the two which usually won't be the cab. And admittedly, they may not as a group favor the more animalistic ones I personally adore, but still, syrah strongly appeals to women.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8499

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by Paul Winalski » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:08 pm

IIRC, Randall Grahm smuggled some syrah cuttings from the Hermitage hill into California. He got caught years later when genetic sequencing showed that the syrah he had planted didn't match any of the clones approved for California but did match what's planted in Hermitage in France. I think the use of a superior, classic clone may have helped his considerable success with the variety.

Is the Hermitage clone still planted in CA, or did the authorities require it to be destroyed?

I've had many good syrahs from CA. But a lot of them were squeaky-clean and missed the smoky, meaty elements that I love in Northern Rhones. At a tasting once I mentioned to the winemaker that his syrah was very good, and only missing those Northern Rhone elements to be really great. He went ballistic and launched into a 5-minute rant about the evils of Brettanomyces.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34943

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: JasonHaas Blog: Syrah's Wild Ride in Calif....

by David M. Bueker » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:11 am

Paul Winalski wrote:IIRC, Randall Grahm smuggled some syrah cuttings from the Hermitage hill into California. He got caught years later when genetic sequencing showed that the syrah he had planted didn't match any of the clones approved for California but did match what's planted in Hermitage in France. I think the use of a superior, classic clone may have helped his considerable success with the variety.

Is the Hermitage clone still planted in CA, or did the authorities require it to be destroyed?

I've had many good syrahs from CA. But a lot of them were squeaky-clean and missed the smoky, meaty elements that I love in Northern Rhones. At a tasting once I mentioned to the winemaker that his syrah was very good, and only missing those Northern Rhone elements to be really great. He went ballistic and launched into a 5-minute rant about the evils of Brettanomyces.

-Paul W.


I am fairly certain the suitcase clones are still around. Ehren Jordan (Failla) essentially said as much on a podcast not so long ago. There are also plenty of others, and not just Syrah.
Decisions are made by those who show up

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, ClaudeBot, Patchen Markell and 25 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign