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Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

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Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by wnissen » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:31 pm

I saw an article in the San Francisco Chronicle by critic Esther Mobley with the headline "Petite Sirah, one of California’s most maligned wines, gets a lighter, better makeover".
Petite Sirah may be the most despised of California’s major wines.

Let’s be clear: This is not an obscure grape variety. Petite Sirah is the sixth most widely planted red grape in California, with more than 12,000 acres, barely trailing Syrah. And yet many wine drinkers — including, a lot of the time, me — don’t like it. Often, Petite Sirah produces a wine that is too tarry, too dense, too chewy. Just. Too. Much. The name is ironic: It’s a monster of a wine, liable to leave your gums parched and stain your teeth.

And that’s exactly why Scott Kirkpatrick and Allison Watkins decided to start Mountain Tides Wine Co., a winery dedicated to Petite Sirah. They’re interpreting the grape variety in a way that emphasizes finesse and grace over monolithic power — showing that there’s a reason to get excited about Petite Sirah after all.


First, I was shocked it's still so widely planted. Livermore is, I think, the epicenter for petite sirah in California (and I guess therefore the world), and I've tried many over the years. They're all quite tannic, often coarsely so, and tannin is the one thing that you almost never see in California wine, from the cheapest to the most expensive. I guess it must be a good blending grape, or highly productive, or both.

But second, I can't even picture a lighter petite sirah. Perhaps the whole-cluster fermentation helps. In Tom's thread last week with the Carlisle, he used the word "oafish", and that certainly fits. I like a petite from time to time, with fatty steak, but lighter petite sirah seems like a contradiction in taste, like "weighty pinot noir". I would take a flier on one of the Mountain Tides bottlings if I could find them in a wine shop. Not sure I'm willing to risk ordering some for shipping.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by David M. Bueker » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:09 pm

Dirty & Rowdy makes a Petite Sirah that is not oafish. The Ridge Lytton Estate Petite Sirah is not a beast. Just two examples.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by wnissen » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:10 am

David M. Bueker wrote:Dirty & Rowdy makes a Petite Sirah that is not oafish. The Ridge Lytton Estate Petite Sirah is not a beast. Just two examples.

Those are both ones I would try as well. I don't think of zinfandel as needing to be "tamed" in the same way as petite sirah, but I bet they're both worth a taste. I did order a couple bottles from Mountain Tides from K&L, but it's still hot here so I except to report on them in November.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by Jenise » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:05 am

Interesting POV, Walt. I'm trying to think which old time California producer also specialized in--oh, Foppiano. And I would classify those as lighter in style comparatively speaking. But it's the only version I think I've had that fits that niche.

Very surprised about it being the 6th most planted grape. I understand it is blended to give substance/structure to things like pinot noir. A Santa Barbara producer famous for producing pinot noirs of surprising longevity even back in the 80's was known to buy a few tons. And at the budget level, Bogle and Concannon I think it is seem to sell it quite well to those who just want Big Wine and don't care what name you call it by.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by Robin Garr » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:09 am

Jenise wrote:Very surprised about it being the 6th most planted grape.

I think you'll find a great deal of that is grown in the Central Valley and ends up as an anonymous component in jug wine, which is still by far the bulk of California's overall production. Not that any of us are going to be drinking it.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by David M. Bueker » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:39 am

Jenise wrote:Interesting POV, Walt. I'm trying to think which old time California producer also specialized in--oh, Foppiano. And I would classify those as lighter in style comparatively speaking. But it's the only version I think I've had that fits that niche.

Very surprised about it being the 6th most planted grape. I understand it is blended to give substance/structure to things like pinot noir. A Santa Barbara producer famous for producing pinot noirs of surprising longevity even back in the 80's was known to buy a few tons. And at the budget level, Bogle and Concannon I think it is seem to sell it quite well to those who just want Big Wine and don't care what name you call it by.


I am trying to guess at the Pinot Noir that has PS blended into it. Care to elaborate/specify?
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by wnissen » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:23 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
Jenise wrote:Very surprised about it being the 6th most planted grape.
I think you'll find a great deal of that is grown in the Central Valley and ends up as an anonymous component in jug wine, which is still by far the bulk of California's overall production. Not that any of us are going to be drinking it.
I do wonder what the jug wines are using these days. I remember a decade or two ago there was a decent amount of "ruby cabernet", which is something I've never seen as a varietal. I also wonder what cepage, say, Two Buck Chuck uses for their pinot noir. Assuming that pinot is as hard to grow as its reputation, who knows, it very well could be 75% pinot noir and 25% petite sirah!

Decanter listed the ten top volume grapes by variety in 2017:

* Chardonnay
* Cabernet Sauvignon
* Zinfandel
* Pinot Noir
* Merlot
* Pinot Gris
* Sauvignon Blanc
* Syrah
* Petite Syrah[sic]
* Riesling

Petite sirah is the only one that makes me go, "Huh?". There's precious little varietal riesling in California, I guess.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by Paul Winalski » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:27 pm

The climate in central California is hot enough to bake the character out of any grape variety, even petite sirah. And even in Sonoma, wineries such as Rodney Strong succeed in making oafish pinot noir. And they're proud of it. :shock:

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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by David M. Bueker » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:21 pm

Paul Winalski wrote:The climate in central California is hot enough to bake the character out of any grape variety, even petite sirah. And even in Sonoma, wineries such as Rodney Strong succeed in making oafish pinot noir. And they're proud of it. :shock:

-Paul W.


Sonoma is a big place with some scorching areas that should never have Pinot planted there...but still do.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by Robin Garr » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:28 pm

wnissen wrote:
Robin Garr wrote: I remember a decade or two ago there was a decent amount of "ruby cabernet", which is something I've never seen as a varietal.

Ahhh, Ruby Cabermet! That's actually a legitimate vinifera varietal cross, and it was pretty darn common back in the '60s and '70s. If memory serves, it was one of the many California vinifera crosses developed by Dr. Harold Olmo of U.C. Davis, specifically a Cabernet-Carignan (!) cross. I remember it as a pretty tasty red, but I imagine (and hope) that my palate has come along a way since then.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by David M. Bueker » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:41 pm

According to Jancis, there were still about 6000 acres of Ruby Cabernet in California in 2009.

I should see if I can get a bottle of Cabernet Dorsa, and then find a Ruby Cabernet for a blind tasting flight.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by Jenise » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:42 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I am trying to guess at the Pinot Noir that has PS blended into it. Care to elaborate/specify?


Do understand I don't know that he still does this. Lots of years have passed and what I heard was maybe 20 years ago. In a discussion about PS and how it's the dirty little trick of many California winemakers, the person speaking cited a particular Santa Barbara area winemaker famous for especially long-lived pinot noirs back when that didn't happen all that often who bought a couple tons of PS every year but never bottled it as a stand-alone variety. Having had some of those well-aged ABC's at the time, it made perfect sense.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by David M. Bueker » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:29 pm

FWIW, I think David Bruce might have done it many years ago.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by Jenise » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:45 pm

That wouldn't surprise me either. However, I've really enjoyed many ABCs where not so much David Bruce--last one I tried drank like a tannat or something. Really brutish.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by David M. Bueker » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:56 pm

Jenise wrote:That wouldn't surprise me either. However, I've really enjoyed many ABCs where not so much David Bruce--last one I tried drank like a tannat or something. Really brutish.


The ones I have enjoyed came from a long time ago.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by Peter May » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:53 am

wnissen wrote:I remember a decade or two ago there was a decent amount of "ruby cabernet", which is something I've never seen as a varietal.


I saw this today and recalled your post:

A wooded Ruby Cabernet from Badsberg in the Breedekloof near Worcester, clinched the coveted General Smuts Trophy as overall SA Champion Young Wine for 2020, after also being crowned as the best entry in the category Other Red Cultivar at this year’s SA Young Wine Show

https://news.wine.co.za/news.aspx?NEWSID=36990

.
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Re: Petite sirah, the "lighter" version?

by wnissen » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:51 pm

Peter May wrote:
wnissen wrote:I remember a decade or two ago there was a decent amount of "ruby cabernet", which is something I've never seen as a varietal.


I saw this today and recalled your post:

A wooded Ruby Cabernet from Badsberg in the Breedekloof near Worcester, clinched the coveted General Smuts Trophy as overall SA Champion Young Wine for 2020, after also being crowned as the best entry in the category Other Red Cultivar at this year's SA Young Wine Show

https://news.wine.co.za/news.aspx?NEWSID=36990

.


That is something, Peter, never thought I would see that.

I tried the Mountain Tides California petite sirah last night, and it was good. The nose is a very confected bramble, intense, like overripe zin. However, it settles down in the mouth to a balanced, red fruity mix, including some fine tannin. Overall it's more balanced than most California wine, and only 13.5% alcohol. Seems like they have indeed tamed the beast. Very Good. I'm looking forward to the Contra Costa County bottling.
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