Your best value picks from well established regions

[David M. Bueker]

This came up in another thread, so I figured why not.

Pat G was talking about Oregon Pinot (and California) getting a bit spendy.

For Oregon I mentioned that Vincent has some great value, delicious wines, especially from Ribbon Ridge. Goodfellow also makes some delicious stuff in their AVA level (versus single vineyard) that is in the $25 range.

This doesn’t have to just be about Oregon. What excellent value wines do you enjoy from regions that are better known for higher priced bottlings?

The image of Bordeaux is of an expensive wine region but there are plenty of examples available here in France at very friendly prices. I have seen some Bordeaux, Bordeaux Supérieur and châteaux from other outlying appellations on sale in supermarkets for as little as €3 but have never ventured to buy as low as that. The cheapest I can recall enjoying cost c.€5,50 and here is my TN -

2015 Cru de la Maqueline - France, Bordeaux (17/03/2018)
This wine was recommended by a neighbour, whose taste I usually share, came with a Bettane/Desseauve Prix Plaisir sticker and cost only €5,50, so it was a no-brainer to give it a whirl when I saw it on the shelves. The estate's address is in Macau, whose wines normally bear the appellation Haut-Médoc, but this is plain Bordeaux so I'm not sure from where the grapes come. It does not taste like Médoc being quite full, round and obviously Merlot dominated (confirmed by the Castel website). It is nevertheless very enjoyable right now with a generous character, full/medium body, rich dark complexioned fruit, only moderate acidity and a firm finish which may owe as much to alcohol (14.5%) as to tannins. IMO needs to drunk soon before the acidity deficit dulls it down but good wine for current drinking and stunning QPR.

Retasted 3/18/2018, attractive blambly aromas have become more present on nose and palate suggesting that decanting would be beneficial.
Posted from CellarTracker

At c.€10 I buy a lot of Bordeaux Supérieur Domaine de Couteillac which is a good ringer for a Saint-Émilion costing at least twice as much.

At a slightly richer style (Comte von Neipperg's signature), I have bought Château d'Aiguilhe Côtes de Castillon 2012 and 2014 for c.€17 but note that the 2016 is now on sale at substantially >€20.

From the left bank, I have picked up Châteaux Verdigan 2004 and Ramafort 2011 & 2012, both cru bourgeois with quite high Merlot content, for c.€11. They are enjoyable drinks but lack the class of top bougeois like Sociando-Mallet and Poujeaux costing the double at least.

Referring back to Stas' thread, I would even argue that the 1er GCC from the Médoc are good QPR compared with cult right bankers like Ausone, Pétrus and Le Pin, with some cult Californians like Screaming Eagle and with much Burgundy GC and 1er C.

[David M. Bueker]

2019 d'Aiguilhe is $17.99 on futures at a local shop.

2019 d'Aiguilhe is $17.99 on futures at a local shop.

Early reports are that 2019 is a very good vintage. That could be a good bargain if you like the Neipperg style.

[David M. Bueker]

2019 d'Aiguilhe is $17.99 on futures at a local shop.

Early reports are that 2019 is a very good vintage. That could be a good bargain if you like the Neipperg style.

Have not had it in a long time, but liked the wine back in the 2000 and 2001 vintages.

Perennial discussion when it comes to Burgundy. Not sure I need to add more to those eternal threads. But, did recently see this article which raises interesting points about the mid-slope Grand Cru vineyards getting too ripe and the 'prime' vineyard locations potentially switching to places that are currently much less expensive.

If indeed climate change continues and the locations change in suitability, I suppose one would expect the prices to eventually adjust. However, in the short-run (however long that may be), there may be some value opportunities!

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2020/06/climate-the-latest-challenge-for-burgundy

2019 d'Aiguilhe is $17.99 on futures at a local shop.

Early reports are that 2019 is a very good vintage. That could be a good bargain if you like the Neipperg style.

Have not had it in a long time, but liked the wine back in the 2000 and 2001 vintages.

Stephan von Neipperg acquired Aiguilhe toward the end of 1998. I had some bottles of pre-Neipperg 1998 which were very good in a more restrained and classical style than the 2012 and 2014, which I found very enjoyable nevertheless. I'm not sure whether the full Neipperg imprint had made its way into the wine by 2000 and 2001.

Perennial discussion when it comes to Burgundy. Not sure I need to add more to those eternal threads. But, did recently see this article which raises interesting points about the mid-slope Grand Cru vineyards getting too ripe and the 'prime' vineyard locations potentially switching to places that are currently much less expensive.

If indeed climate change continues and the locations change in suitability, I suppose one would expect the prices to eventually adjust. However, in the short-run (however long that may be), there may be some value opportunities!

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2020/06/climate-the-latest-challenge-for-burgundy

Very interesting. One would need a lot of local knowledge to avoid the under-performers and to pick out the new over-performers in the first instance. In the longer run if the warming continues or accelerates, I would expect Northern Burgundian appellations like Irancy and Bougogne Épineuil to gain status and for Champagne to become a major producer of still Pinot Noir reds.

Very interesting. One would need a lot of local knowledge to avoid the under-performers and to pick out the new over-performers in the first instance. In the longer run if the warming continues or accelerates, I would expect Northern Burgundian appellations like Irancy and Bougogne Épineuil to gain status and for Champagne to become a major producer of still Pinot Noir reds.

Maybe. Depends what you mean by 'a lot'! I think most people here know the general villages that may have produced bright crunchy wines that struggled with ripeness in the past, but which might offer new opportunities in ripe vintages. For specific wines, that's why we have the trusted critics/importers/retailers!

[David M. Bueker]

Bourgogne and less expensive village wines from good producers are really stepping up in the era of climate change. Hudelot-Noellat Bourgogne is under $30, and has overperformed for a number of years.

I've always found Schug Carneros Estate pinot noir to offer good value, especially after Parker trashed them. I prefer the more European-type pinot noir, so I appreciate what Schug is trying to do. If you prefer the big, inky, high-octane pinot noirs, this isn't for you.

I think Saintsbury's Carneros bottling is a good value in tasty pinot noir, too. Enjoyable young, but if you can keep your hands off it, it can evolve into a dead ringer for a good Nuits-St.-Georges.

-Paul W.

Evesham Wood is another OR value winery to me.

Darting in the Pfaltz comes to mind too, although I haven’t seen anything of theirs in many years.

Au Bon Climat in Santa Barbara too?

[David M. Bueker]

I was thinking of mentioning ABC, but haven’t had a bottle in a few years.

Darting is fabulous value, largely because what they do is completely out of fashion in the Pfalz. Skurnik still brings in the wines, and they are still delicious and cheap.

Very interesting. One would need a lot of local knowledge to avoid the under-performers and to pick out the new over-performers in the first instance. In the longer run if the warming continues or accelerates, I would expect Northern Burgundian appellations like Irancy and Bougogne Épineuil to gain status and for Champagne to become a major producer of still Pinot Noir reds.

Maybe. Depends what you mean by 'a lot'! I think most people here know the general villages that may have produced bright crunchy wines that struggled with ripeness in the past, but which might offer new opportunities in ripe vintages. For specific wines, that's why we have the trusted critics/importers/retailers!

In Burgundian vocabulary (and AFIK nowhere else), individual vineyards are known as "climats". I wonder if this linguistic quirk, indicative of the main quality criterion there, will enable the Burgundians to accept more easily the needs for changes in vineyard classification as the climatic warming progresses?!

[David M. Bueker]

Past practice in terms of vineyard reclassification would seem to indicate that the use of “climat” does not make them more amenable to change.

There's more to the positioning of the Cote d'Or grands crus than just the sun exposure. They have the optimal marlstone subsoil and drainage, too, and global warming won't change those factors.

-Paul W.

[David M. Bueker]

No, but with more frequent droughts the drainage is not as big of a deal.

[Jenise]

Evesham Wood is another OR value winery to me.

Au Bon Climat in Santa Barbara too?

Agree on Evesham Wood. But I've been wary since Russ Rainey sold the winery, and don't know if it still stands up to Russ' standards. Have an opinion on that?

Agree on ABC. In fact, I have a six pack coming that's a month overdue. A bottle of his chardonnay at a restaurant in Kauai last year blew me away for $22 shelf in a holiday place, and so I jumped on the six pack as a way of catching up with some of his better bottlings as well as the pinot. Haven't had the latter in a LOOOOOONG time.

[Jenise]

Pat G was talking about Oregon Pinot (and California) getting a bit spendy.

For Oregon I mentioned that Vincent has some great value, delicious wines, especially from Ribbon Ridge.

Good thread starter. I need to open a domestic pinot tonight with my Thai-inspired duck dish, a Vincent would probably fill the bill. I bought a smattering of his wines about two years ago and haven't tasted one of the pinots yet. That said, I haven't re-ordered because he didn't stand behind the flawed pinot blancs I bought from him. Opened about six months apart, they were both cloudy, spritzy and stinky--IOW, a secondary fermentation. When I complained about the first, he said sorry no idea what happened and immediately sent me a refund. When I reported the second, he apologized again but stated that no one else had complained about it. No offer of a refund. At which point I pointed out that all five or six reviews on CT at that point had complained of it. Silence ensued. When I buy direct from the winemaker, I expect better.

[David M. Bueker]

How come you always end up with the flawed bottles Jenise? I sure hope you don’t play the lottery.

[Jenise]

I'm just cursed, what can I say.

[David M. Bueker]

I'm just cursed, what can I say.

Avoid any wine labeled Cuvee Voldemort.

My notes are organized by varietal. Prices listed are what I paid, all in, taxes & shipping.

Pinot Noir:

Navarro, Anderson Valley, Mendocino <$20
Lincourt, Sta. Rita Hills <$20
Seaglass, Santa Barbara County <$12
Dashwood, Marlborough, <$15

Chardonnay:

Lindeman’s Bin 65, South Eastern Australia, <$6 (Huge region, party wine)
Smoking Loon Steelbird, California <$10 (Party wine, bit of creative license?)
Matchbook Old Head, Dunnigan Hills, <$12

Cabernet:

Milbrandt Traditions, Columbia Valley <$15

Syrah:

McPrice Meyers, Head Honcho, Santa Barbara County, <$18

Riesling:

Navarro, Anderson Valley, <$16

Zinfandel:

Buehler, Napa Valley, <$18

Malbec:

Trapiche, Mendoza, <$10

Sauvignon Blanc:

Dashwood, Marlborough <$12

Re: ABC I have limited experience but their Santa Barbara County PN and Chard have been good; available in my area for about $21, and $18, respectively.

I tend to consider Chile as an emerging area for Pinot Noir and Syrah; some good wines, but lack of consistency. IMHO Chile is established for Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon and Carmenere.

Most interested in ideas from those experienced with Burgundy. Red, White, whatever. Received a Joseph Faiveley Bourgogne, 2016 as a gift. Local pricing <$20. Any ideas in that range would spark interest from the frugal corner.

Cheers!

[David M. Bueker]

I visited Chile several years ago, and toured wine regions. It’s not a good climate or soil structure for Pinot Noir. Good ones are pure luck.