Italian Wines

Never been a big fan of Italian wines, at least the reds. I've tried a few varietals, but I'm somewhat ignorant of the breed. I have a soft spot for Chiantis. The cheap kind that came in the basket bottles, back in the 60's.I liked the fact that they were never sweet or 'fruit foward.' Back then the Classicos were too mellow for me. I do like the fact that the fruit is bright not sweet. Not a big fan of Sangiovese grape. Too bright for me. I’ve had 3 Chianti’s recently. A house version, a better rest. version and now a 2013 Reserva (the best of the 3). To me Chianti’s have a burst of bright fruit (cherries?) some tannins and a harsh back end (which I like), but no middle..I must admit, after all, I'm a cab. guy. Right now I'm having a cheap Chilean SB with grains, beans and salad, all seasoned with delicious home made sauces. OK, come back at me bro..

[David M. Bueker]

You do realize that Chianti is made from Sangiovese.

Yes, of course, sorry, my message was as mixed as my feeling about Italian reds. I've tried straight sangiovese in a shop in the mtns near Bologna. Too bright. I should have said that I'm not a big fan of too bright, and sour cherries, but I have never had a too sweet or fruit forward Chianti, or red Italian, which I appreciate.

[David M. Bueker]

Lots of current Chianti is now 100% or close to 100% Sangiovese. The old blending rules have gone by the wayside.

[Robin Garr]

It's a moving target, but I believe the most recent DOCG varietal requirements for Chianti include Sangiovese (80% to 100%), and other red grapes up to a maximum of 20%, Canaiolo, Colorino, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Merlot. The traditional white grapes Malvasia and Trebbiano were allowed up to a maximum of 6%, but that ended after the 2005 harvest.

[David M. Bueker]

Yes, but 100% Sangiovese used to be forbidden. That was part of how wines like Flaccianello and Fontalorro came into being.

I know neither of those wines are cheap, but I cannot imagine the region being better off without them.

(Not to mention I cannot comprehend any valid reason to reject them on a qualitative basis.)

[Robin Garr]

Right, and before that in another direction, Tignanello and all the other Super Tuscans that did things that used to be forbidden but now are not.

[David M. Bueker]

So?

[David M. Bueker]

Regardless, there is still a ton of well made Chianti Classico out there, much of it at very easy prices.

Julian-it sounds like you prefer wines with lower acidity, but you also do not want something too fruity. Is that an accurate assessment? Most of us hard core wine geeks tend to prefer brightness in our wines, so I want to be clear on what you are looking for.

[Robin Garr]

We're on the same page, just kicking ideas around. I love Tuscan reds, and to be honest, I'm fine with some relatively cheap Chiantis.

David. I'd say that's about right, if acidity is the back end harshness of Chiantis. I like acidity in crispy Sauv blancs though. There I equate it with feeling of carbonation (carbonic acid) w/o the bubbles. It doesn't feel like that in Chianti. I'm finishing off the last 1/4 glass of that Chianti and am enjoying it. I have another bottle of it and a different label. Great antidotes for fruit forward Cal. Cabs. I'm also having a Bordeaux with the taste of olives or moldy cork..there's that vocab again..

[David M. Bueker]

Moldy cork sounds like a problem, not a feature.

I'm probably getting it wrong, but I don't like it. It probably has some more elegant name and I'm an oaf.. , or it may taste differently tomorrow.

I'm probably getting it wrong, but I don't like it. It probably has some more elegant name...

Nothing elegant about TCA. And nobody likes it.

That note was gone the next day.

I think Chianti used to be rather acid forward and lacking a middle, as you suggest, but I think that era is long gone, mainly due to climate change and style changes too. Merlot, for example, was introduced in part to provide more mid palate I think.

For the recent vintages in particular, 2015 and 2016 (and 2017 and 2018 from what I hear), there is no lack of fruit - quite the opposite. So I would try some 2015 or 2016 Chianti classico or reservas from solid producers - there are a great many of them - and I don't think you'll complain about too much acidity or a lack of a mid palate. These are rich, ripe, sometimes with healthy tannins and still reasonable acidity, but not like the 'old' acidity levels.

There are quite a lot of interesting wines that are excellent value and still can last quite long in the cellar, although I wonder if that is changing too. That is, the riper style might not last as long as the 'traditional' chianti. That's my two cents!

Chianti Classico has changed a great deal in the last 10 or 15 years; many more flavorful, well-made wines are being made. I prefer those that don't contain French grape varieties, but stick to Sangiovese blended with the traditional local varieties like Colorino. Find a good merchant who knows something about Italian wines and I think you'll be in for a surprise.