Meininger's: Hybrid Grapes

As linked in WineTerriorist, interesting article in Mieninger's on a renewed interest in hybrid grapes:
HybridGrapes .

I'm assuming by "hybrid grapes", they are referring to crosses of Vinifera with Rupestris/Rontundfolia/Labrusca/Riparia/Berlandieri/etc that are disease resistant? These hybrid grapes have a long & troubled history in France and other parts of Europe and have pretty much been driven from wine regions.
The ResDur1 varieties or Soreli (Italian hybrid) I've not heard of. I'm assuming these are grapes for wine production? Curious as to what the wines taste like.
This begs the question of if you can make a "natural" wine from these unnatural grapes. SweetAlice will have to way in on that one before we know the answer.
Tom

As I understand it, hybrid varieties are not allowed for wine production in France, (or EU generally without specific permission and then not allowed a 'quality' designation).

But exceptions have been made for varieties where the American parentage is way back in the family tree, and which taste like vinifera.

I looked at one variety named in the article - Monarch. That is the result of

(Merzling X (Saperavi severnyi X Muskat Ottonel)) X Dornfelder

Merzling parentage is Seyve-Villard 5276 X (Riesling X Pinot gris).

I don't have time at the moment to investigate parentage of all the varieties, but I know Seyve (Seyval) is a hybrid

It's interesting. American vines seem to have so many desirable qualities - resistance to phylloxera, oidium, black rot, cold, mildew etc - and lack only one: taste

Most enjoyable wine book* I read this year proposes in one chapter breeding out, or otherwise removing, the genes that cause the foxy taste in American varieties.


* Tasting the Past: One Man's Quest to Discover (and Drink!) the World's Original Wines
by Kevin Begos

It's interesting. American vines seem to have so many desirable qualities - resistance to phylloxera, oidium, black rot, cold, mildew etc - and lack only one: taste

Most enjoyable wine book* I read this year proposes in one chapter breeding out, or otherwise removing, the genes that cause the foxy taste in American varieties.


* Tasting the Past: One Man's Quest to Discover (and Drink!) the World's Original Wines
by Kevin Begos

Well, Peter.... what you say is sorta true. In a lot of the hybrid wines I taste, I don't find so much of a foxy taste
(which is supposedly due to methyl anthrinilate) as so much as a coarse/rustic taste...sorta like you get in Pinotage!!
Mostly, the smells & flavors are unfamiliar to people used to classic Vinifera wines.
I would like to see what kind of a skin-contact white Seyval or Traminette could make. Not been done that I know of.
Tom

Well, Peter.... what you say is sorta true. In a lot of the hybrid wines I taste, I don't find so much of a foxy taste

I wasn't talking hybrids, but native American vines. Many hybrids have succeeded only because they aren't foxy.

a coarse/rustic taste...sorta like you get in Pinotage!!

Not me! I had a 2006 Kanonkop Estate Pinotage on Saturday that was superbly elegant.

I'm not interested in a skin contact white of any type, having tasted enough. But Seyval Blanc makes a better traditional method sparkling wine than the usual suspect, IMO.

I wasn't talking hybrids, but native American vines. Many hybrids have succeeded only because they aren't foxy.

Fair enough, Peter. Understand.

a coarse/rustic taste...sorta like you get in Pinotage!!

Not me! I had a 2006 Kanonkop Estate Pinotage on Saturday that was superbly elegant.

I'm not interested in a skin contact white of any type, having tasted enough. But Seyval Blanc makes a better traditional method sparkling wine than the usual suspect, IMO.

I was just jerking your chain a bit, Peter. I've only tried a few Pinotages. Not been that impressed. I really need to explore
Pinotage a bit more thoroughly.
But..hey... this is the InterNet and I'm a LosAlamos guy. We can make blanket condemnations based only on a few data points.
Sometimes...it's with zero data points!!
Tom

I can't stop thinking about this....

So, what wines are these going to used in? The up-to 15% share that varietal wines don't have to declare?

Wine drinkers are very resistant to new varieties. The most successful one I can think of is (vinifera) Zweigelt - it's number 1 red and No. 2 overall in Austria but it's almost 100 years since it was created and it's rarely found elsewhere.

Marselan (vinifera) was created in the 1960's but only in the past 20 years grown commercially, and although Lafite is growing and using it in China for its otherwise Bdx blend there are few examples of a varietal Marselan on the market and even fewer wine-lovers who seek it out - or have even encountered it.

These new hybrids are recommended for being resistant to disease, thus requiring less spraying, thus being cheaper to grow, but I haven't read anyone recommending them for their taste. How much cheaper will a new varietal be so that people buy it rather than an established variety? If cost is a major factor there's plenty of cheap wine about.....

Isabella (a labrusca with some vinifera inherited from plants brought over by European settlers) is all over southeast Austria. We would laugh when seeing it on the menu yet again - must be back in the Finger Lakes! It's prevalent in the Republic of Georgia too where it's known as Izabella or Adezza. Vinifera is the predominant wine grape in both places, but you don't hear Isabella referred to as foxy or having an off taste in either one.

As I understand it, hybrid varieties are not allowed for wine production in France, (or EU generally without specific permission and then not allowed a 'quality' designation).

But exceptions have been made for varieties where the American parentage is way back in the family tree, and which taste like vinifera.

Exceptions are also made for wines that are destined for the pot still. Most Armagnac these days is made from Baco blanc, a hybrid variety.

And of course most V. vinifera worldwide is grafted onto native American or hybrid (such as the infamous AxR) vine rootstock.

I think the foxiness question should be turned around: how is it that V. vinifera doesn't have that attribute of the other vines in the genus? Is the phylloxera resistance somehow linked to the foxy aromatic quality? I hope not.

-Paul W.

Abkhazia is an historic wine-making region of Georgia located along the Black Sea bordering Russia. In the book 'Untamed: 8000 Vintages of Georgian Wine', Anna Saldadze writes that the Isabella grape was introduced to the region in the 19th century by Jacob Marr, a Scotsman. Georgia became part of the USSR following the Soviet Revolution with the result that wine-making in Abkhazia was industrialized, most of it being made from Isabella. Indigenous grapes largely disappeared. The political status of Abkhazia is currently in dispute after a war in which Russia sided with revolutionaries. The wine-making industry has suffered greatly.