Pinotage Pronunciation

Perhaps you should submit an English pronunciation of Pinotage, Peter?

This came up in another thread and so I've started a new one for it.

Many people outside South Africa assume that because the word is a portmanteau with the first part taken from Pinot Noir the first syllable of Pinotage should be pronounced as an elongated Pee -noh

But its a South African grape, bred and named by Afrikaners and Pinotage is pronounced in the Cape as I show in my Powerpoint show when I talk about Pinotage

Pinotage-pronunciation.png

Pinno -targe

Proof of the Cape pronunciation is given by the bottle image of a entry level Pinotage by Graham Beck winery called simply Pinno

Thanks Peter, but I actually meant to submit the pronunciation to Forvo.

I see they do have a pronunciation of Pinotage there, but it is from a French person and in a French sentence. I just thought an authoritative English version would be good, and I remember from earlier posts on forums that you make it your mission to have it pronounced correctly.

[David M. Bueker]

Wow. They managed to make the grape even less appealing!

On the pronunciation itself though, I have just listened to a number of South Africans talking about the grape, and I cannot hear the last bit sounding like the ending of "large". The "g" is softer, like the French "age" used in some English pronunciations of "garage".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdNwWiozQq4

The Wikipedia article for Pinotage has that pronunciation too - in IPA.

[Robin Garr]

And there's that separate-language thing going on again with the rrrr in targe/large. Wouldn't "lahge" work in both languages, and avoid the embarrassment of Yanks going around saying Pinno-tarrrrge?

The Wikipedia article for Pinotage has that pronunciation too - in IPA.

I've gave up on the Wikipedia Pinotage entry years ago. I've not looked at it for years as it raised my blood pressure. It was full of nonsense. The stuff I put in was removed/changed by people who had never been to the Cape.

It didn't help that some American dictionary that was quoted as a source for pronunciation had it as peeeeeno

French "age" used in some English pronunciations of "garage"

I don't know French. Many people in UK pronounce "garage" as garidge, so using that as a an example pronunciation would not work.

Yes, the 'g' sound in Pinotage is soft. It is difficult to find a word that is pronounced the same by an international audience

Wouldn't "lahge" work in both languages, and avoid the embarrassment of Yanks going around saying Pinno-tarrrrge?

Yes, if one pronounces the 'a' sound as 'arr' rather than ay. Many Americans pronounce the 'a' in grass and tomato as 'ay', while Britons pronounce tomato 'a' sound as 'ah', and southern Britons pronounce 'a' in grass as 'ah' (like me) while northern Britons pronounce it as 'ay' (like Mrs M).

And don't get started on the correct pronunciation of scone (or its ingredients!!)

No need for anyone to be embarrassed by pronouncing Pinotage, as long as one remembers the important thing that it's pinno not peeeno. The rest doesn't matter.

[David M. Bueker]

Yes, if one pronounces the 'a' sound as 'arr' rather than ay. Many Americans pronounce the 'a' in grass and tomato as 'ay'

I have been all over the country in my 52 years and never heard anyone pronounce the a in grass and tomato the same way. It is generally the 'ay' sound for tomato, but grass is never said that way.

Let's call the whole thing off.

[Robin Garr]

It is generally the 'ay' sound for tomato, but grass is never said that way.

Pedant alert: In parts of Appalachia, that long A shows up in words like grass, pass, and basketball ... grayss, payss, bayskitball. But it sounds weird, and it's not widespread.

Let's call the whole thing off.

[David M. Bueker]

It's not the 'ay' as in tomato. It's 'aya', or more closely 'ayuh'

[Robin Garr]

It's not the 'ay' as in tomato. It's 'aya', or more closely 'ayuh'

Fair enough - we're looking at phonemes now rather than letter pronunciations. But I thought it was close enough for an English guy.

[David M. Bueker]

Dueling Phonemes down in the Holler.

[Robin Garr]

Dueling Phonemes down in the Holler.

Actually, now that I think about it, the Appalachian "a" is more like an "ai" diphthong, as in "Ah cain't play baisketball."