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WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

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WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by Tim York » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:26 am

Curiously the last two wines opened have suffered, for me, from acidity problems but in opposite directions. I’m particularly puzzled by the Alsatian Sylvaner, most of which in my experience is quite acidic and crisp, if somewhat neutral in flavour; this one is the absolute opposite of that. On the other hand, I expect Coteaux champenois to show marked acidity but here I felt it was excessive. Here are my TNs.

2017 Agathe Bursin Sylvaner Lutzeltal - France, Alsace (9/6/2019)
I don't know how to rate this wine. By itself it had a lot personality and manifest qualities like most of the wines from this talented vigneronne. But it was unlike other quite high acidity wines I have had from this grape variety and I am not clear how it can be used gastronomically. It was unsuited to the moules marinières with which we paired it.

The nose showed fragrant grapey fruit and spicy aromatics. The palate was medium/full with rich fruit, similar aromatics to the nose, noticeable residual sugar, low acidity and a soft but quite long finish. The subjective effect was flavoursome but quite plump and sweet and, unlike with an increasing number of Alsatian producers lead by Zind-Humbrecht, there no was no clue about this on the label (rant!!!) which contributed to my pairing error.

2014 Olivier Horiot Coteaux Champenois Riceys Rouge En Barmont - France, Champagne, Coteaux Champenois (9/5/2019)
I admired this wine more than I liked it. It is made from Pinot Noir coming from Les Riceys, which is best known for its rosé and is situated at the extreme south of the Aube part of the Champagne region. It is quite pale is colour and has an elegant bouquet of sour cherry and raspberry with some backbone. On the palate it is medium/light bodied and well focussed with the aromas from the nose taking on a savoury character in the fruit, some nice pinosity, marked minerality, some sensation of prickle, though none was visible, and a saline and spicy backbone to its quite long finish. The fly in the ointment was acidity which I felt too marked for balance and for moreishness resulting in some wine being left in the bottle in spite of moderate alcohol (12%). The pairing, foie de volaille sauce financière, did not help. A pity because there is undoubted personality and champenois elegance here. I'm not sure if further ageing will tame the acidity. Quite good.
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by David M. Bueker » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:37 am

I think you were a victim of vintage with both wines.
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by Tim York » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:46 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I think you were a victim of vintage with both wines.


Possibly, but I didn't find the same problem with Agathe Bursin's Riesling Dirstelberg 2017 where there was abundant acidity, minerality and backbone to balance a little RS. Of course Riesling is a far superior grape IMO, except reputedly in Franconia. I don't know enough about the comparative maturation cycles of Sylvaner and Riesling against the weather pattern in 2017 to know if that explains the different acidity levels.
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by David M. Bueker » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:13 pm

Over the recent past (2012-2015) I have found most every non-Riesling Alsatian wine I have tried to be lower in acidity that I prefer. I think it’s possible that the days of the other grapes have passed for folks who like more vibrant wines.
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by Rahsaan » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:04 pm

Tim York wrote:2014 Olivier Horiot Coteaux Champenois Riceys Rouge En Barmont - France, Champagne, Coteaux Champenois (9/5/2019)
I admired this wine more than I liked it...


I had heard good things but a bottle of this '14 En Barmont and a bottle of the '14 En Valingrain did not convince me at all. Admired more than liked is a good way of putting it. Seemed like tasty-enough fresh natural wine juice, but they did not have much depth or dimension and seemed to be aging past interesting. Of course I could have had heat-compromised bottles, maybe in Champagne they are more impressive. But a bit expensive for further experimentation on this side of the Atlantic.
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by Tim York » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:28 am

David M. Bueker wrote:Over the recent past (2012-2015) I have found most every non-Riesling Alsatian wine I have tried to be lower in acidity that I prefer. I think it’s possible that the days of the other grapes have passed for folks who like more vibrant wines.


Does this stricture also apply to Alsatian Pinot Noir? I'm reading more and more enthusiastic reviews about them in the French wine press but, so far, have had none myself which justify that level of praise.

Rahsaan wrote:
Tim York wrote:2014 Olivier Horiot Coteaux Champenois Riceys Rouge En Barmont - France, Champagne, Coteaux Champenois (9/5/2019)
I admired this wine more than I liked it...


I had heard good things but a bottle of this '14 En Barmont and a bottle of the '14 En Valingrain did not convince me at all........ But a bit expensive for further experimentation on this side of the Atlantic.


My thinking too here in France.This bottle cost €39 at a caviste on the Île Saint-Louis. The posh location probably adds €5-10 but even shorn of that it is still dear.
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by David M. Bueker » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:47 am

I have not yet delved into Alsatian Pinot Noir, not do I have any plans to do so.
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by Rahsaan » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:28 pm

Tim York wrote:
Rahsaan wrote:
Tim York wrote:2014 Olivier Horiot Coteaux Champenois Riceys Rouge En Barmont - France, Champagne, Coteaux Champenois (9/5/2019)
I admired this wine more than I liked it...


I had heard good things but a bottle of this '14 En Barmont and a bottle of the '14 En Valingrain did not convince me at all........ But a bit expensive for further experimentation on this side of the Atlantic.


My thinking too here in France.This bottle cost €39 at a caviste on the Île Saint-Louis. The posh location probably adds €5-10 but even shorn of that it is still dear.


I think they were $45 in Nyc, not that much different.
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by wnissen » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:56 pm

I had a similar issue with the 2005 Weingut von Othegraven Kanzemer Altenberg Riesling Spätlese Auction. I knew that this was almost certainly legally an Auslese, and it wasn't botrytized that I could tell, and the acidity/sugar balance was OK. But man was it a lumbering elephant. I truly considered cutting it with sparkling water. The dry extract was just overwhelming. If you read the review from Mosel Fine Wines they rate it highly but to my mind damn with faint praise, e.g. "manages to maintain some freshness in the finish" and a description of "roasted fruits". Not a good use of $40.
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by Mark S » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:35 am

Tim York wrote:

2014 Olivier Horiot Coteaux Champenois Riceys Rouge En Barmont - France, Champagne, Coteaux Champenois (9/5/2019)


I wanted to like this wine, I really did, but could not. I had the 2008 version which tasted of battery acid and sharp pricks. Perhaps try in a riper vintage (if I can find it again)?
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Re: WTN: Acidity out of balance in my last two wines

by Tim York » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:56 pm

Mark S wrote:
Tim York wrote:

2014 Olivier Horiot Coteaux Champenois Riceys Rouge En Barmont - France, Champagne, Coteaux Champenois (9/5/2019)


I wanted to like this wine, I really did, but could not. I had the 2008 version which tasted of battery acid and sharp pricks. Perhaps try in a riper vintage (if I can find it again)?


I think that's right, Mark. 2015 rather than 2014 and 2009 instead of 2008. It's a bit surprising though that ripeness should be an issue so far south as Les Riceys. I've had excellent Coteaux Champenois rouge from Bouzy, Ambonnay, Aÿ.....in vintages of comparable ripeness to 2008 and 2014.
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