Set me straight on Cotes du Rhones

[Jenise]

Friend wants to have a Northern Rhone tasting. In her invite she named all the usual NR suspects plus Cotes du Rhone. Several of us said no Cotes du Rhones are Southern Rhones. Hostess--in a way the least likely among us to know as she and partner are not that geeky and their preferences are generally new world, but on the other hand she is a scientist and the most likely to do her due diligence said--wrong, they exist, they just don't make it over here. She would never have had one, but she would/could have read it and it's unlike her to make a mistake.

Wellllllllllllll, is that true? I am suddenly remembering a famille Ogier CdR I found at Whole Foods but just presumed was southern fruit. Might not have been, but given all the tasting notes I read I'm a little surprised that such a thing exists, if it does, and I didn't know it. At the very least, if that designation is actually used in the North then you have to know your Northern producers to identify a qualifying bottle.

Good question. If you ask me, producers in the North Rhone are just more likely to make an IGP than a CdR. The only NR CdR i ever drank was Domaine du Coulet

[Jenise]

Thanks, Chaim. What are you doing up? (Making fun of myself, it's 3 a.m. and I shouldn't be.) You safe? Hope the bombs have stopped.

[David M. Bueker]

Isn't the Guigal CdR a mostly northern blend? I thought it was pretty heavy on the Syrah, versus the southern, Grenache-based blends.

[Robin Garr]

The Cotes du Rhone AOC really does extend along both Northern and Southern Rhone hillsides, but the North doesn't use it as much. All the Cotes du Rhone villages are in the south, but it's absolutely true that there are CdR vineyards in the north, just harder to find as everyone has said. Under the rules, it's also entirely possible that a producer in the south could get some of their grapes from the north. As long as they're grown within the appellation, they're good to go. Barring a village appellation, CdR isn't specific to north or south, and the location where it's vinified and bottled doesn't necessarily reflect where the grapes were grown.

There are some Northern Cotes du Rhone, just rarer. Clape and Jamet are two I see the most, though not commonly. Wait, I think Texier Brezeme is in the north (certainly it's Syrah), so that's what I see most

I have drunk a very good CDR from Auguste Clape made, I believe, from Syrah vines located just outside the Cornas boundary.

According to Wikipedia, wines with the label CDR may be sourced from many northern communes, including Ampuis, Condrieu, Tain-l'Hermitage, Cornas, Saint-Péray. Grenache Noir is cépage principal and Syrah is one amongst a list of cépages supplémentaires.

I guess that the relatively paucity of wine labelled CDR sourced from the north arises because most production is entitled to bear "better" appellations like Crozes-Hermitage, Saint-Joseph, etc.

PS: I just read a Figaro article about Jean-Luc Colombo, originally a Cornas producer, who offers a CDR Les Forots made principally from Syrah sourced from just north of the Cornas area. I have long boycotted Colombo because of a memory of internationally styled Cornas from him in the 90s. However, I read that the wines show more place character nowadays after a change of generation and I enjoyed their entry level CDR 2016 called Rossanint. I think that Colombo wines are quite widely distributed.

Hmmm, I just looked at Wikipedia, which says of grapes:
Red and rosé wines:
The main grape variety (Grenache noir) must make up at least 40% of the blend for wines from south of Montélimar.
The supplementary grape varieties (Mourvèdre and Syrah) must together make up at least 15% of the blend, although this rule is not applied to small producers who produce their own wine from less than 1.5 hectares (3.7 acres) of vineyard area.
The main and supplementary grape varieties must together make up at least 70% of the blend, and the accessory grape varieties are therefore restricted to a maximum of 30%.
Marselan is not allowed to make up more than 10% of the blend.
The total proportion of white varieties (all of then accessory) may not exceed 5% for red wines, and 20% for rosé wines.
The rules for the red wines mean that varietal (100%) Grenache noir may only be produced by small producers under the Côtes du Rhône appellation. North of Montélimar, varietal Mourvèdre and Syrah wines may be produced.
Which is why the Clape, Jamet, and Texier wines I mentioned are all syrah.
But the other all-Syrah CdR I have owned is the Fonsalette (Rayas) Cuvee Syrah, Which I thought was in south. So seemingly in violation of these rules?

[Jenise]

Isn't the Guigal CdR a mostly northern blend? I thought it was pretty heavy on the Syrah, versus the southern, Grenache-based blends.

The early Guigals I fell in love with while the pappy was alive circa 1990, and I'd obviously forgotten about them, are still present in my palate's rear view mirror and were probably mostly grenache. Red, juicy, funky. I fell out of love when they turned dark--mostly syrah.

[Jenise]

There are some Northern Cotes du Rhone, just rarer. Clape and Jamet are two I see the most, though not commonly. Wait, I think Texier Brezeme is in the north (certainly it's Syrah), so that's what I see most

Good points--I'd completely forgotten about those, I've actually bought the Jamet in the past. It comes down to you really have to know your producers.