Tipping for Room Service

Usually, when I order room service in a hotel, a delivery charge is added to the bill and the restaurant also usually includes an automatic 15% to 18% gratuity (which one could probably strike if one wanted to).

Does anyone out there feel motivated to tip on top of that?

Yes.

Most of the time, yes, Gary, unless the service/delivery charge is over 20%.

I bring the total tip to 20% Gary, and if the staff is particularly helpful, add a little more in cash. We tend to use room service more than once, and tipping to 20% results in better service, we find.

Most of the time, yes, Gary, unless the service/delivery charge is over 20%.

Bill, John:

Is that because you guys feel that 20% is the appropriate gratuity amount? Or is there another reason?

In general, I rarely skimp on the tip unless the service was attitudinally bad, i.e. the server was a real alpha hotel, or the food was truly indigestible, but I find it presumptuous to add gratuities automatically as a gratuity is a reward for performance. If restaurants feel their service personnel are not getting adequate remuneration then they should raise their prices and raise the wages they pay. The same goes for that automatic tip on parties of six or eight or more.

In my youth, I bussed and waited many a table so I am fundamentally on the side of the service personnel.

(Saw yours after I posted this, Bob.)

Gary
As ever, us folk in Uk would see a service charge and consider the transaction closed. Ok it's a different pricing/incentive model, but all the same that's just silly (from a UK perspective).
regards
Ian

Gary
As ever, us folk in Uk would see a service charge and consider the transaction closed. Ok it's a different pricing/incentive model, but all the same that's just silly (from a UK perspective).
regards
Ian

Ditto in Deutschland (good name for a movie) where I spent many a year. If there were a service charge or gratuity tacked on, we'd just round up to the nearest whole number and be done with it. Maybe I still need some resocialization?

I usually throw give the person $2-3 cash, like I would for pizza delivery. I guess if it was an extensive room service meal, where he/she was opening wine, etc. then I'd throw in a bit more.

Does anyone out there feel motivated to tip on top of that?

No, Gary - I usually do not. I work with people who have come to believe that 20% is what you give - period - no matter if the service is good or bad. I am a good tipper but I like to think that the tip should be a reflection of the service. Once, with very poor service, I wrote out the explanation of my tip on the back of the receipt for the server to understand why I gave what I gave. I don't, for example, tip on the tax added to the bill - some people don't understand that. I don't tip 15% on wine if there's no sommelier - only 10%. In my experience, almost all tips added by the restaurant use the 'bottom line' charge, so you are paying 18% tip on the tax as well as food and the service charge. Add to that? - I don't think so unless something extraordinary/magical took place.

Does anyone out there feel motivated to tip on top of that?

No, Gary - I usually do not. I work with people who have come to believe that 20% is what you give - period - no matter if the service is good or bad. I am a good tipper but I like to think that the tip should be a reflection of the service. Once, with very poor service, I wrote out the explanation of my tip on the back of the receipt for the server to understand why I gave what I gave. I don't, for example, tip on the tax added to the bill - some people don't understand that. I don't tip 15% on wine if there's no sommelier - only 10%. In my experience, almost all tips added by the restaurant use the 'bottom line' charge, so you are paying 18% tip on the tax as well as food and the service charge. Add to that? - I don't think so unless something extraordinary/magical took place.

Jon, we think more or less alike in these things. (And I thought I was the only one in the world who objected to tipping on the tax amount.)

I do like to honor good service. That's how the system is supposed to work to my mind. But I don't like being bludgeoned or guilted into tipping. I recall when I was 16 or 17, my buddy and I had taken dates into NYC. We had just enough money to pay the bill and almost enough to get a 10% tip together which was the norm for the time. Well, we headed for the men's room on the way out and were pursued into the privies by our waiter who pushed us up against a wall and shouted in an Irish accent that, if we couldn't tip 10%, we shouldn't even enter the restaurant. His service, by the way, had been hit or miss. That bit of aggravation more or less set the tone for my tipping habits and has remained with me for the last 40 years. (And, no, we did not haul off on the waiter. We just informed management for however much good that did.)

I really wish service personnel and restaurant management would stop viewing gratuities as a given. Service personnel should be paid appropriately and the gratuity should be motivation for better service. On the one hand, I don't like to take food out of someone's mouth by chincing. On the other, I dislike enabling a system in which, to my mind, business owners relieve themselves of responsibilities and costs by creating the mystique of the required 20% tip.

Yet I know a lot of folks in food service, including my constant companion, and, oddly enough, they are the best tippers I know. Maybe I need enlightenment.

You and I do think more alike than not on this issue. I was compelled to post in light of seeing what everyone else was posting. I suppose that this is a topic (like reading books for pleasure, speaking well and the use of proper grammer) that's just not like it used to be.
Well, I'm proud to be a stick-in-the-mud.

Most of the time, yes, Gary, unless the service/delivery charge is over 20%.

Bill, John:
Is that because you guys feel that 20% is the appropriate gratuity amount? Or is there another reason? Bob.)

I have been told by hotel staff that some (or most) of the included gratuity does not actually go to the guy who brings the food to your room. (Never seen a woman.) The other reason is that any time I have a reason to give a person money personally, I like to do it. The person is usually less fortunate than I am and what else should you do with money? For example, look at the amount that you give the poor bloke as a percentage of what you spend on an average dinner, or a car, or on an ungrateful kid's education. I way over tip and consider it a kind of giveback for my good fortune.

to my mind, business owners relieve themselves of responsibilities and costs by creating the mystique of the required 20% tip.

Why are you blaming the owners? They didn't create the system.

Nobody benefits more from the current system than the tipped employees. I have accounts where high school kids working the floor are making $25 per hour when tips are calculated. I've seen the figures. Remember, in California, tipped employees are not exempt from the minimum wage laws as they are in many other parts of the country.

To answer the original question, the reason I "tip up" on room service is because I like putting some cash in the hand of the person who brought me the food - it's the only way I can be sure it goes where I intend it to go. There are many tip out systems, and often, a portion of the tip on the check will go to dishwashers, hostesses and other support people - which I have no problem with. The little extra is just that - a little extra.

As to tipping on tax vs not, the way I see it, it doesn't make enough of a difference in real dollars to matter, at least to me. If I spend 10K a year eating out, what's 20% of the 8% tip? $160, spread out over a large number of dining experiences. Again, it's just a little extra, and being in the business, I like to do that.

Why are you blaming the owners? They didn't create the system.

That we do not know for sure, but what we do know is that they perpetuate it and seem to count on it in their business plans, either consciously or unconsciously. It's in their power to change it, but they won't because it works to their advantage.

Nobody benefits more from the current system than the tipped employees. I have accounts where high school kids working the floor are making $25 per hour when tips are calculated. I've seen the figures. Remember, in California, tipped employees are not exempt from the minimum wage laws as they are in many other parts of the country.

Your calculations are indeed correct. In fact I just got off the phone five minutes ago with a friend who has gotten a new gig in Lafayette. She said she was getting minimum wage but that with tips the hourly could average about $20.00. Still in all, wouldn't it be more beneficial to the employee to simply get a $25.00 salary and not have to worry about living off of tips? Isn't the owner benefiting from lower payroll costs because he/she can get away with paying minumum wage or less in some states while counting on tips to attract service personnel?

To answer the original question, the reason I "tip up" on room service is because I like putting some cash in the hand of the person who brought me the food - it's the only way I can be sure it goes where I intend it to go. There are many tip out systems, and often, a portion of the tip on the check will go to dishwashers, hostesses and other support people - which I have no problem with. The little extra is just that - a little extra.

This illustrates my point. Wouldn't it be more ethical to pay all these people a living or better wage instead of making them count on the kindness of strangers?

As to tipping on tax vs not, the way I see it, it doesn't make enough of a difference in real dollars to matter, at least to me. If I spend 10K a year eating out, what's 20% of the 8% tip? $160, spread out over a large number of dining experiences. Again, it's just a little extra, and being in the business, I like to do that.

But it does to the restaurants and employees over the long run, both of whom profit by the cumulative extra.

Like I said, I am somewhat conflicted as I do not wish to take food off the table of the service personnel. Nonetheless, I feel "the system" allows restaurant owners to pay low wages and keep their own costs down. And, in order to help guarantee that that void is filled by tips, some include automatic gratuities on bills which may or may not reflect the diner's personal satisfaction with the service. If service personnel received living wages, which, of course, would be reflected in the prices, the diner would still be paying as much. The only difference would be that there would be more wage security for the service personnel and you would know where your money is going.

Now, if you retort that service would deteriorate if there were no tip system in place to motivate, then you would necessarily have to agree with the argument that tipping should be fully voluntary and not automatic.

I'm not being cheap here. I'm just looking at a system which works to disadvantage the consumer and benefit business, leaving the service employee stuck in the middle. And why? Well, because it's "always been done that way," people blindly accept it.

Yet I know a lot of folks in food service, including my constant companion, and, oddly enough, they are the best tippers I know.

Nothing at all odd about it, Gary. Anyone who has worked in food service has been there, including yours truly. And lots of people still in food service consider it good tip karma.

I always tip 20%, and more if the service is great. The service has to really be terrible for me to give less than that. Yes, the system may be (is) horrible, but until/unless it changes people do count on that tip to make ends meet.

Edited to add that I do know a couple restaurant owners who pay their employees more than the minimum wage.

That we do not know for sure, but what we do know is that they perpetuate it and seem to count on it in their business plans, either consciously or unconsciously. It's in their power to change it, but they won't because it works to their advantage.

really? How so? As an operator, can I say to my staff, okay, nobody can accept tips here? Instead I am going to pay everyone a "living wage" (whatever that is) and I will charge more for the food to our customers. Probably not - several things will likely happen:
staff will resent each other, because some will be working harder for the same money
customers will find another place to dine where the prices are more reasonable
some diners will continue to tip, regardless of policy. Will the servers do everything in their
power to decline the tip, or will they try to "palm" it? Can I legally enforce the no tip rule?

Still in all, wouldn't it be more beneficial to the employee to simply get a $25.00 salary and not have to worry about living off of tips? Isn't the owner benefiting from lower payroll costs because he/she can get away with paying minumum wage or less in some states while counting on tips to attract service personnel?

No, I don't think it is. But I belong to that subset of people who are comfortable in, and even further motivated by, 100% commissioned compensation, so perhaps I am biased. I disagree that the owner benefits - remember who absorbs increased labor cost - the dining public, not the owner. If my payroll goes up, I raise menu prices accordingly. If I don't, I go out of business.

This illustrates my point. Wouldn't it be more ethical to pay all these people a living or better wage instead of making them count on the kindness of strangers?

Fallacy. Nobody is "making" anyone do anything. People choose to work in these positions. In my area, even though the minimum wage is required for tipped employees, employers are paying more than that, AND offering health insurance, in order to attract and retain competent people.

But it does to the restaurants and employees over the long run, both of whom profit by the cumulative extra.

As I said, I have no problem with that. I pay somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 to 25% over menu price for all of my meals. Now, if by some magic, tomorrow, I wake up and all menu prices have increased by a like amount, with the entire sum going into the pockets of the tipped employees, and tipping is abolished, I am not going to jump off a bridge. Nothing changes for me.
I do think those people you are trying to "help" might have a problem with it, however.

Nonetheless, I feel "the system" allows restaurant owners to pay low wages and keep their own costs down. And, in order to help guarantee that that void is filled by tips, some include automatic gratuities on bills which may or may not reflect the diner's personal satisfaction with the service.

Different issue. As a diner, I would not be shy about questioning an automatic gratuity if I felt it was out of line. Such a policy might even influence my choice of where to dine.

If service personnel received living wages, which, of course, would be reflected in the prices, the diner would still be paying as much. The only difference would be that there would be more wage security for the service personnel and you would know where your money is going.

Since these jobs don't appear to go begging, apparently enough workers are willing to take the chance that they will make their definition of a living wage. And if the jobs were not being filled, operators would be paying more, as they do in my area.

Now, if you retort that service would deteriorate if there were no tip system in place to motivate, then you would necessarily have to agree with the argument that tipping should be fully voluntary and not automatic.

I do agree with that. And I almost always voluntarily feel that 20%+ is fair. That's me. Others are comfortable at 15% and I don't think any servers out there are turning up their noses at that amount, especially on large checks.

I'm not being cheap here. I'm just looking at a system which works to disadvantage the consumer and benefit business, leaving the service employee stuck in the middle. And why? Well, because it's "always been done that way," people blindly accept it.

The beauty of the marketplace is, you are free to try and change it. Have you considered opening an establishment of your own? You could advertise your tip free, living wage philosophy, and I am sure that many like minded individuals would flock to your place.
Let the market decide.

The beauty of the marketplace is, you are free to try and change it. Have you considered opening an establishment of your own? You could advertise your tip free, living wage philosophy, and I am sure that many like minded individuals would flock to your place.
Let the market decide.

First, there is no beauty in our marketplace. It is cold and cut-throat, leaving the strong to prosper and the weak to perish. It's as close a thing to social Darwinism as I've ever seen.

Second, a wine critic does not need to make wine to make observations about wine so there is no need for me to walk a mile in restaurant owner's moccasins. That is an argument of last resort.

Third, I never said to ban tipping. All I said was to keep it voluntary and merit-based as I had objected to the automatic addition on a bill I had received. Further, I suggested that the tipping system we have favors business owners as it allows them to keep payroll costs and menu pricing down which is most certainly does. If I were a business owner, I might argue as bitterly to maintain the status quo as you are doing here.

Fourth, I doubt I'd get a huge flock of like-minded folk, just a few birds of a feather. In our economy idealism usually seems to stop at the pocketbook. However you do see what you suggest at work in places which, for instance, sell Fair Trade Coffee or in non-profits.

First, there is no beauty in our marketplace. It is cold and cut-throat, leaving the strong to prosper and the weak to perish.

Perish, or get stronger. I find that beautiful.

Second, a wine critic does not need to make wine to make observations about wine so there is no need for me to walk a mile in restaurant owner's moccasins. That is an argument of last resort.

Perhaps not, but I think one will find more insight from someone has actually done the thing being critiqued, be it winemaking or pitching a baseball or running a successful restaurant.

Third, I never said to ban tipping. All I said was to keep it voluntary and merit-based as I had objected to the automatic addition on a bill I had received. Further, I suggested that the tipping system we have favors business owners as it allows them to keep payroll costs and menu pricing down which is most certainly does. If I were a business owner, I might argue as bitterly to maintain the status quo as you are doing here.

I understand your problem with automatic gratuities. I don't like them, either. I do believe the consumer has the right to alter or eliminate the automatic gratuity when the situation warrants. Better still, don't patronize the estsablishment, and tell them why. You keep saying that keeping payroll costs down benefits the owner; I don't see it that way. As I said before, if my labor costs go up, I raise my menu prices in synch, so it's the consumer that pays. There is simply not enough profit margin in the restaurant business to allow a quadrupling of labor cost. Menu prices must rise by 20% to cover the increase. If we do it, the owner is no better or worse off than before. Unless, of course, people decide not to come out to eat anymore, in which case, everyone is screwed.

In our economy idealism usually seems to stop at the pocketbook.

I see that as a good thing. After all, if everyone does what is best for himself, the economy as a whole will grow and prosper.,

First, there is no beauty in our marketplace. It is cold and cut-throat, leaving the strong to prosper and the weak to perish.

Perish, or get stronger. I find that beautiful.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That does indeed seem to be nature's way of doing things. I was under the impression, however, that humankind was at least making the attempt to evolve beyond the primitve eat or be eaten society.

Second, a wine critic does not need to make wine to make observations about wine so there is no need for me to walk a mile in restaurant owner's moccasins. That is an argument of last resort.

Perhaps not, but I think one will find more insight from someone has actually done the thing being critiqued, be it winemaking or pitching a baseball or running a successful restaurant.

I don't need to know how to braise short ribs to judge whether or not I like how they've been prepared. I don't need to be able to throw a curve ball to see that a pitcher is pitching outside the strike zone. When was the last time Robin made a batch of wine? Are you saying his opinions are less valid than John Zuccarino's who is a winemaker? By imputing lack of qualification to judge something because one is not ITB is simply arguing ad hominem. We all have knowledge and experience to draw upon.

Third, I never said to ban tipping. All I said was to keep it voluntary and merit-based as I had objected to the automatic addition on a bill I had received. Further, I suggested that the tipping system we have favors business owners as it allows them to keep payroll costs and menu pricing down which is most certainly does. If I were a business owner, I might argue as bitterly to maintain the status quo as you are doing here.

I understand your problem with automatic gratuities. I don't like them, either. I do believe the consumer has the right to alter or eliminate the automatic gratuity when the situation warrants. Better still, don't patronize the estsablishment, and tell them why. You keep saying that keeping payroll costs down benefits the owner; I don't see it that way. As I said before, if my labor costs go up, I raise my menu prices in synch, so it's the consumer that pays. There is simply not enough profit margin in the restaurant business to allow a quadrupling of labor cost. Menu prices must rise by 20% to cover the increase. If we do it, the owner is no better or worse off than before. Unless, of course, people decide not to come out to eat anymore, in which case, everyone is screwed.

Aye, there's the rub! "If we do it, the owner is no better or worse off than before." But maybe the employee is! And that's the point. I mention several times a conconmitant increase in menu prices to cover increased wages. In the end, the consumer is paying about the same. The restaurant owner is getting about the same. But the service employee, however, is assured a more regulated income than if he/she had to depend on tips. We all pay our share for a fairer society.

In our economy idealism usually seems to stop at the pocketbook.

I see that as a good thing. After all, if everyone does what is best for himself, the economy as a whole will grow and prosper.

There again is the difference in our basic attitudes. Always doing what's best for oneself usually means saying "the hell with the other guy." It's a valid position and one which probably leads to more material success in this life than my wishy-washy, left-leaning, communal, Mother Teresa hugginess. But, I can't help myself, I feel that we'd all be better off taking care of one another, all pulling on the same rope in the same direction.

I'll end my contribution with a well-known quote from John Donne's Meditation XVII which summarizes my position better than I could, "No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

Aye, there's the rub! "If we do it, the owner is no better or worse off than before." But maybe the employee is! And that's the point. I mention several times a conconmitant increase in menu prices to cover increased wages. In the end, the consumer is paying about the same. The restaurant owner is getting about the same. But the service employee, however, is assured a more regulated income than if he/she had to depend on tips. We all pay our share for a fairer society.

Well at least we're back to the original point of discussion. Would the server who is now making $30 per hour view it as fairer if he wound up making $20 under your plan? Probably not. But you'd feel better. Isn't that what this is really about?

There again is the difference in our basic attitudes. Always doing what's best for oneself usually means saying "the hell with the other guy."

Not necessarily. I have something I want to sell. You have something you need to buy. You have money in your pocket. I don't. I trade you my item for your money. We both try to strike a deal that's best for us, and we both walk away happy.

The economy is not a zero sum game. In order for me to win, someone else does not have to lose.

I've enjoyed this discussion, but something tells me neither of us will change the other's view.
No hard feelings, I hope.

I've enjoyed this discussion, but something tells me neither of us will change the other's view. No hard feelings, I hope.

I've enjoyed the debate. No reason for hard feelings. No mud was slung!

This is from Tipping Etiquette:

At the hotel

Before you arrive at a nicer hotel or resort, inquire as to whether gratuities are included in the price of the room. Some hotels are now charging a daily fee that covers all tipping for hotel services. If there is not a daily fee, these rates are appropriate:

Valet or parking attendant - $1-3 is appropriate for parking or returning the car. It is not necessary to tip for parking, but always for returning the car.

Doorman - If he hails you a cab, $1-2. If he helps you with your bags in or out of the car, $0.50-1 a bag. Use $1-2 per bag if he carries them all the way to the room. If he just opens the door, nothing. If he is exceptionally helpful with directions or restaurant recommendations, same as concierge.

Bellman - When he helps you with your bags, tip $1-2 per bag. Give him the tip when he shows you your room. If he just carries the bags to the front desk and then disappears, save it for the person who carries the bags to your room. Upon checkout, tip a bellman who helps with your bags. Tip more for additional services.

Concierge - $5-10 for help with hard-to-get dinner reservations or theater tickets. Tipping is optional for just plain advice. Tipping can be done at the end of the trip or at the time of service, just keep is straight so that you are fair.

Room Service - If gratuity is included, add nothing or $1. Otherwise add 15-20% to the total charge.

Delivery of special items - If you request extra pillows or an iron, tip $1 per item received, minimum $2.

Maid service - $1-5 per day typically, up to $10 per day depending upon how much mess you make. Tip daily because there might be a different maid each day. Leave the tip on your pillow. Err on the side of being generous, and tip on the last day also.

Swimming pool or gym attendant - Nothing, unless you require special services such as extra seating or inflating pool toys; then it is $2-5. If you want the same deck chairs every day, then tip $2-3 per chair beginning the first day.

Hotel maintenance staff - Nothing to replace a light bulb, fix the air conditioning, etc.