The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Exciting Cabernet Franc

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

James G. Lester

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

69

Joined

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:37 am

Location

Buchanan, Michigan

Exciting Cabernet Franc

by James G. Lester » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:11 am

I was visiting my local fine wine shop here in South Bend, Indiana, and ran across an interesting wine. And since I grow Cabernet Franc (among other vinifera varieties) professionally, I thought I would share my thoughts on this beauty.

2003 Domaine Patrick Baudouin Anjou Villages Val de Loire Cabernet Franc, 13% Alc. Imported by Grail Wine Selections, LLC, Napa, CA

Deep dark ruby color and a warm vintage promise a rich wine. The nose is intensely aromatic, almost to the point that it is difficult to determine what fruits one is smelling! I perceived intense aromatic sandlewood with a touch of allspice, and underneath, rich stewed red plums. The palate is bright, crisp and tannic with concentrated red plum, sweet red currant and red raspberry fruit, with a nice dollup of minerals. Finish is long, appetizing, and satisfying, with a lovely lingering earthy finish. This is a great "food wine"! I loved this. I only lack my rack of lamb!

James G. Lester
Wyncroft, LLC
<a>wyncroftwine.com<a>
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

42734

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Jenise » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:27 am

James, I've only had one Anjou cab franc, but it in a tasting of Loire cab francs and it was the most different of the bunch. Don't know if that was the producer or the terroir, but it had a strong sweet raspberry streak in it (in comparison to the others) that was quite fetching.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

James Roscoe

Rank

Chat Prince

Posts

11017

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm

Location

D.C. Metro Area - Maryland

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by James Roscoe » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:50 am

I'm hoping that there will be some Anjou Cab Franc at the Loire Vally event in April at the French Embassy. Your note makes me look forward to the event even more.
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
no avatar
User

Mark Lipton

Rank

Oenochemist

Posts

4285

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Location

Indiana

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Mark Lipton » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:27 pm

Nice find, Jim. There's a lot of sentiment that '03 was a lot kinder to Loire reds than its whites. I've opened a few '03 Anjou Cab Francs that were crowd pleasers, too.

Mark Lipton
no avatar
User

James G. Lester

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

69

Joined

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:37 am

Location

Buchanan, Michigan

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by James G. Lester » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:32 pm

James,

My impression is that the new generation of winemakers in that part of France are playing catch up with other more famous wine regions. Quality has risen overall in recent years. I suspect you will see some Loire Cab Franc there.

The 2003 vintage was warm and many of the wines are very rich and fruity, but there is that underlying minerality that makes them so interesting and good at the table. We also had a 1995 Saumur-Champigny a few years ago that was simply awesome. It was very deep ruby and had masses of tannin and rich earthy raspberry fruit. And it only cost $ 14.95!! Also recently had a Bourgueil by Breton from 2003 that was lovely. And there is a producer named Charles Joguet there in Chinon that makes several single vineyard bottlings like Burgundy. These wines are very worth exploring.

Jim Lester
<a>wyncroftwine.com<a>
no avatar
User

Sue Courtney

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1809

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:33 pm

Location

Auckland, NZ

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Sue Courtney » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:35 pm

Jenise wrote:James, I've only had one Anjou cab franc, but it in a tasting of Loire cab francs and it was the most different of the bunch. Don't know if that was the producer or the terroir, but it had a strong sweet raspberry streak in it (in comparison to the others) that was quite fetching.


Hey Jenise, Maybe it was different because it was not Cabernet Franc at all. I'm suggesting this because a grower in NZ - Robin Ransom of Ransom Wines, thought he was growing Cabernet Franc in his vineyard but it did not perform to his expectations. With a bit of sleuthing and DNA testing (in Australia), it was eventually identified as Carmenere - the lost grape of Bordeaux.
The particular clone came into NZ in 1998, the source being the University of Bologna in Northern Italy. It was identified as Clone F4.

Carmenere has an interesting period of being misnamed. It was originally thought as as Merlot in Chile, and as Cabernet Franc in North East Italy, where there has been some confusion between Cabernet Franc and Carmenere.
Now the University of Turin says that clone F4 is Cabernet Franc while clone F5 is Carmenere. There are many genetic similarities between these two clones and it could have been misnamed in Bologna.

I wonder how many other places there are besides N.E. Italy and NZ where Carmenere has been masquerading as Cabernet Franc. Maybe there is a little bit of mystery surrounding the vines in the Loire, too.

Cheers,
Sue
no avatar
User

James G. Lester

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

69

Joined

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:37 am

Location

Buchanan, Michigan

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by James G. Lester » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:45 pm

Mark,

True enough. I have not had any Chenins from 03, but the the few Sancerres I've had were flat and dismal. One of the wines we served for our daughters wedding last September was a 2003 Pouilly-Fume "Pechignolles" from Pascal Gitton. The Pechignolles vineyard has chalky limestone soil not unlike that of Champagne. In any case, it was a hit with many of the guests who didn't know what PF is supposed to taste like! There was very low acidity and a honeyed baked apple character to the fruit. I did a pH on it and it was at 3.50--shockingly high for any white wine from France!

But back to thread, Cabernet Franc is a late-ripening variety, so the warmth would do it good! I wonder what the 03 red Sancerre's are like. Boy I do have a bad case of thread drift!

Jim Lester
<a>wyncroftwine.com<a>
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Hoke » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:54 pm

I can add that the Chilean authorities fought tooth and nail against allowing Carmenere for the longest time, even though it had already been established that Carmenere existed.

The major players didn't want to admit that much of the hoopla about Merlot (then, of course, the hottest variety going and therefore the entree to a lot of shelfs and winelists) was based on Carmenere.

Alvaro Espinoza, the brilliant Chilean winemaker, campaigned tirelessly for Carmenere when he found out it was a large portion of the Vina Carmen Reserve Merlot back in the early 90s, but the Chilean government stonewalled him, so when he made a Carmenere-Cabernet blend, he wasn't allowed to use the designation of Carmenere. The compromise was that they would allow another synonym for the variety in Bordeaux, Grande Vidure. (Why one synonym for the grape was okay and the other wasn't is beyond my meager understanding, but then I'm not a government bureacracy.)

Anyway, because of that the first Carmenere to come into the US (identified properly) was under the name of Grande Vidure. Took two more vintages before the word Carmenere was allowed.

The wine was gorgeous, by the way. And sold out quickly at about $7 a bottle.

I've been following the Northern Italy saga you mentioned. Seems there was rampant confusion with Carmenere, with most thinking it was Cabernet Franc, and some arguing it was Merlot, a la Chile.

There was also a widely held belief that all the Pinot Grigio in Northern Italy isn't in fact PG. Some Italians that must remain un-named but are in positions where they know whereof they speak insist that there's a considerable amount of Pinot Blanc and other grapes that somehow become Pinot Grigio once they get into the bottle.
no avatar
User

Bruce K

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

587

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:06 pm

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Bruce K » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:58 am

I wonder what the 03 red Sancerre's are like.


I've had a few -- from Andre Neveu and Domaine de Chatenoy (Menetou-Salon, but comparable) -- and found them, predictably, to be fruitier and richer than the norm, but not over-the-top and very enjoyable in their own right. Overall, I prefer red Sancerres from normal years (I have a weird predilection for lean, acidified, minerally, underfruited red wines), but I'm glad I bought these. How's that for thread drift?

Getting back to the original topic, I've been to Loire tastings and found that CF's from Saumur-Champigny and elsewhere in Anjou generally seem riper and fruitier than CF's from Touraine (Chinon, Bourgueil). Add 2003 to the mix and it should be all the more true. But, like you, I've found that the 2003 Loire CFs I've still taste like they come from there -- a remarkable achievement.
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11177

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Dale Williams » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:24 am

Put me in the camp of 2003 Loire red fans. Maybe the only region I don't think of 2003 on label as a warning sign (though certainly there are tasty Bordeaux and even a few Burgs from '03)
no avatar
User

Brian K Miller

Rank

Passionate Arboisphile

Posts

9340

Joined

Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:05 am

Location

Northern California

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Brian K Miller » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:52 am

I enjoyed a mid-priced bottle of Saumur-Champigny from 2003. Definitely some rich, lush fruit, but also very nice herbal and "green pepper" notes.
...(Humans) are unique in our capacity to construct realities at utter odds with reality. Dogs dream and dolphins imagine, but only humans are deluded. –Jacob Bacharach
no avatar
User

rumpole

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

41

Joined

Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:16 pm

Location

Washington State

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by rumpole » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:12 pm

Grab some of the 2005 Loire Cab Francs! Great vintage. Try some Domaine Filliatreau Chateau Fouquet (Saumur) under $15
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3824

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Peter May » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:25 pm

The consistently best varietal Cabernet Franc's I have ever had are grown in the Niagara Peninsula in Ontario, Canada.

Why the variety should do so well there, I know not.
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11177

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Dale Williams » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:37 pm

rumpole wrote:Grab some of the 2005 Loire Cab Francs! Great vintage. Try some Domaine Filliatreau Chateau Fouquet (Saumur) under $15


Haven't had the Ch. Fouquet, but the '05 Filliatreau "La Grande Vignolle" is a spectacular value at same price point.
no avatar
User

Howie Hart

Rank

The Hart of Buffalo

Posts

6389

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Location

Niagara Falls, NY

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Howie Hart » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:50 pm

Peter May wrote:The consistently best varietal Cabernet Franc's I have ever had are grown in the Niagara Peninsula in Ontario, Canada.

Why the variety should do so well there, I know not.

Interesting! That's where I get must (crushed gapes) from for my home made. I have to buy it that way or else I can't bring it across the border. I have some '04 and '05 versions aging in my cellar. Due to the terrible September and October weather I decided to not make an '06 version.
no avatar
User

James G. Lester

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

69

Joined

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:37 am

Location

Buchanan, Michigan

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by James G. Lester » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:27 pm

Peter and Howie,

I have had some lovely Cab Francs from Niagara as well. I want to try some of your homemade Howie!

I think Peter, that the cooling effect of the Great Lakes helps the flavors develop slowly and evenly, while the very warm summers help develop full ripeness and thick skins. In the Loire, it is considerably cooler than Niagara during the summer and that is why they can have less fruit and higher acidity. Also the bell pepper character can be pronounced in a cooler climate. Many people find this taste objectionable. Overcropping the vines also is a disaster with Cabernet Franc. Some of the early Niagara efforts were very green until they figured this out. I am growing Cab Franc at the southern tip of Lake Michigan in SW Michigan. It makes a lovely lush wine here with no "veggies" when cropped at about 2 tons per acre. (approx. 25 hectoliters per hectare) I think it likes a cooler climate than most of California. Is anyone growing it in Sussex? I had a lovely Sauvignon Blanc from there some years ago, and it ripens close behind that variety.

Jim Lester
<a>wyncroftwine.com<a>
no avatar
User

Howie Hart

Rank

The Hart of Buffalo

Posts

6389

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Location

Niagara Falls, NY

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Howie Hart » Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:22 am

James G. Lester wrote:...I want to try some of your homemade Howie! ...Jim Lester
I'll have some at NiagaraCOOL in June and MOCOOL in August. :wink:
no avatar
User

Dave Erickson

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

808

Joined

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:31 pm

Location

Asheville, NC

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Dave Erickson » Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:11 am

Oddly enough, cab franc grows well in the Yadkin Valley in North Carolina. There's a relatively new winery in Lexington built by Childress (he of NASCAR fame) that is turning out very respectable cab franc for $16.

The spiritual home, though, is Chinon/Bourgueil. All right, Pomerol, too... :D
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3824

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by Peter May » Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:14 am

James G. Lester wrote: Is anyone growing it in Sussex?


I don't think so, but with around 400 mostly tiny (about an acre) vineyards across England and Wales run by nutters (well you have to be to make wine in England with the combined forces of the weather, heavy handed interpretation of EU rules, unsympathetic tax regime, cost of land & etc against you) they may well be some. Usual reds here are German crosses developed to get a good colour (Dornfelder etc) but with the interest in sparkling wines, Pinot Noir and Meunier are becoming favourites.
no avatar
User

James Roscoe

Rank

Chat Prince

Posts

11017

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm

Location

D.C. Metro Area - Maryland

Re: Exciting Cabernet Franc

by James Roscoe » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:04 pm

rumpole wrote:Grab some of the 2005 Loire Cab Francs! Great vintage. Try some Domaine Filliatreau Chateau Fouquet (Saumur) under $15


I will look for these producers. Thanks for the reccomendation!
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, ClaudeBot, Google IPMatch and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign