750Daily: The Science Of Orange Wines...

As linked in WineTerroirist, there's a somewhat interesting article in 750Daily on the Science of Orange Wines:
ScienceOfOrangeWines
by PaulAdams of CooksIllustrated.

Orange wines thus have some of the mouthfeel and bitterness of reds, but with aromatic character from the white grapes that are used. “The variation among these wines,” says Boulton, “is the perfect example of what happens when you do the same thing—which is practically nothing—in different locations with different grapes.”

I find that with some/many orange wines (meaning an skin-contact white, whether made in an oxidative or reductive manner...a distinction most people fail to make), the varietal character, the aromatics of the grape variety, is obliterated by the phenolic character. The orange wines I find most interesting are those that have a relative light phenolic character, but still retain some of the grape aromatics. SamBilbro does this very well with his superb Cortese, made by making a fraction with skin-contact, a fraction direct-to-press, and then blending the two. FloridaJim does this well in his Ribolla by doing several pump-overs of the juice over the skins after its been pressed.
Anyway, a somewhat interesting article that's a quick read.
Tom

Thanks for that article, Tom.

I agree totally with you about the failure of many people to understand the difference between reductive and oxidative (or even oxidised) orange wines. They seem to assume that orange wines are oxidised to some extent, which is absolutely not the case. I would say the majority are fresh and vibrant.

I am not sure about "phenolics" masking the aromas, though. I put it no stronger than to say I am not sure, but suspect the impression of masking is partly because we are less attuned to recognising the aromatic elements in orange wines. Why should "white" grapes aromatics be more masked by skins than "red" grapes?

I do not pretend to be particularly well-attuned myself, but feel I can now appreciate the differences between orange wines of the relatively unaromatic Rkatseteli variety versus the more aromatic Mtsvane and Kisi - even in quite heavily tannic versions. And that is a great improvement from (say) a year ago, when I was of the opinion that all oranges wines basically tasted the same.

Thanks for that article, Tom.

I agree totally with you about the failure of many people to understand the difference between reductive and oxidative (or even oxidised) orange wines. They seem to assume that orange wines are oxidised to some extent, which is absolutely not the case. I would say the majority are fresh and vibrant.

I am not sure about "phenolics" masking the aromas, though. I put it no stronger than to say I am not sure, but suspect the impression of masking is partly because we are less attuned to recognising the aromatic elements in orange wines. Why should "white" grapes aromatics be more masked by skins than "red" grapes?

I do not pretend to be particularly well-attuned myself, but feel I can now appreciate the differences between orange wines of the relatively unaromatic Rkatseteli variety versus the more aromatic Mtsvane and Kisi - even in quite heavily tannic versions. And that is a great improvement from (say) a year ago, when I was of the opinion that all oranges wines basically tasted the same.

True dat, Steve. I would say that in wines made w/ prolonged skin-contact, the process sublimates any varietal character, at least varietal character as we recognize it. I would like to see a PinotGris and a Riesling, made the same way w/ prolonged skin-contact. I suspect we would detect differences in the wines, but being able to say which was PG and which Riesling...probably couldn't do that.

Same story w/ heavily botrytized wines. The botrytis tends to sublimate any varietal character...at least varietal character as we recognize it. You can taste Navarro GWT & Riesling BA/TBA side-by-side. They are distinctly different. But identifying the GWT from the Riesling...I can't do it w/ my klutzy palate.
Tom

So do wines of "red" grapes made without skin contact also show more varietal character? It could be so, but my experience of such wines is very limited. Apart from blanc de noirs Champagne that is, and I would say BdN has little of the Pinot Noir character you get from the red wines. In that case it seems that the aromatics we associate with Pinot Noir are associated with the skin, or close to it at least.

Not really sure what to conclude from all this, but it is at least interesting. Further "research" is needed.

So do wines of "red" grapes made without skin contact also show more varietal character? It could be so, but my experience of such wines is very limited. Apart from blanc de noirs Champagne that is, and I would say BdN has little of the Pinot Noir character you get from the red wines. In that case it seems that the aromatics we associate with Pinot Noir are associated with the skin, or close to it at least.

Not really sure what to conclude from all this, but it is at least interesting. Further "research" is needed.

Yup, Steve....I've had several blanc de PinotNoirs, mostly Siduri. They don't smell like anything I associate
with PN. Same story w/ White Zin as well. So, yeah, it seems the aromatics must be associated w/ the skin.
Tom

The bulk of aromatic compounds are found in the berries skin cells. In freshly crushed grape juice
these aromatics are hard to pick up and notice (especially "non-aromatic grapes"). Only after fermentation
does it gets easier to notice them.
I wouldn't necessarily say a wine produced from grapes at a different ripeness level or using different
winemaking techniques shows "varietal character" better than another wine made from the same grapes in a
"different style". Wine should be thought of a caricature of the actual grape berries it is made from.
Some "renditions" might exagerate striking characteristics more than others.

Salute