The One European Red Wine to Inform California Wine Drinkers

If you had to choose one European Red Wine to persuade California wine drinkers of merits of drinking European wines versus California wines what wine would you choose.

Just a suggestion, but I would avoid wines that have odd (off) tastes generated by wild or contaminant yeasts and bacteria.

If folks mention the same wines then I will try to buy it online.

Thanks

One??? Would you choose one CA wine to convince Europeans? What do you want, a wine that compares in similarity or a wine that contrasts, as something that is not available from CA? If the former, I'll leave that to others. If the latter, almost anything from Germany, Alscace or Beaujolais, as the varieties grown there exhibit very different qualities compared to those grown in CA. You don't have to look far. See Carl's post "2005 Louis Jadot, Beaujolais Villages" or Tom Noland's post about "White Beats Red" or almost any post by Florida Jim.

[Robin Garr]

If you had to choose one European Red Wine to persuade California wine drinkers of merits of drinking European wines versus California wines what wine would you choose.

Just a suggestion, but I would avoid wines that have odd (off) tastes generated by wild or contaminant yeasts and bacteria.

If folks mention the same wines then I will try to buy it online.

Hmm, interesting and thought-provoking question! I'm not sure there's one single answer, as it kind of depends on what you want to accomplish.

1. Looking for a Euro-wine that will resemble a California wine in overall style? This is much easier than it used to be, because a fair number of European producers now make wines in the "Parkerized," "international" style, fruit-forward and squeaky clean. They're all over, but one specific niche that should please folks who love Oz Shiraz or Central Coast Pinot is the Sicilian <b>Nero d'Avola</b>. A lot of new-wave reds from Spain will fit into this category too, from <b>Priorat</b> or <b>Ribera del Duero</b>. The <B>Pétalos Mencia</b> from Bierzo in Northwestern Spain that I reported yesterday shouldn't offend anyone who loves California Petite Sirah, although to my way of thinking it was less monolithic, more multi-dimensional and balanced.

2. Looking for something completely different? Try a dry, mineral-driven white. Two excellent examples: <b>Muscadet de Sèvre et Maine</b> from the Loire, or <b>Grüner Veltlinter</b> from Austria. Or of course just about any Riesling from the <B>Mosel</B> or the <B>Rhine</B>. Or <B>Chablis</B>, the real stuff.

3. Look for hearty, full-bodied reds that balance fruit and earth - Grenache-Syrah-Mourvedre blends from the <B>Rhone</b>, from <b>Cotes-du-Rhone</b> to <b>Chateauneuf-du-Pape</b>, or from Italy, <b>Tuscan</b> reds including <b>Chianti</b>. Check TNs or ask here if you want to avoid those funky, wild tastes, but be aware that many wine geeks just love that earthy character, so at some point you might want to come back to that niche, gingerly.

Just a few thoughts. Point is, though, in today's marketplace you can find Euro-wines that differ dramatically in style from the New World, but you can also find plenty of wines that you might be hard-pressed to distinguish from California wines in a blind tasting.

Like anything regarding food or wine, it all comes down to taste. People are bound to have certain biases regarding what they like dependant on experiences in their life, bad wines, or whatever.

If someone is holding to a prejudice against European wines like a political party, religion or sports fanatacism, no one wine is going to change their minds.

I would suggest that at a dinner you host or a party, have one or two different European wines decanted with the bottles nowhere to be found. If they like it you can surprise them later.

The variety of European wine is vast and somewhat daunting, it would be impossible to pick one end-all be-all because someone who likes one may not be partial to another.

Wel, (surprise, surprise!) Robin has laid it out very clearly. I'd only add one other category: a Beaujolais-Villages or Dolcetto D'Alba, for light-bodied reds that are pretty "user friendly." I'd tend to steer clear of Bordeaux and Burgundy as their wines take more effort for most US drinkers to grok. On the basis of my own experience (Zinfandel to Cotes du Rhone) I'd say to go with a R. Rhone red, but most of my friends who are recent converts went by way of white wines: ABC to NZ SB to Muscadet, GV and Chablis.

Mark Lipton

The tacks taken by the posters so far are right on. If you get into comparing apples to apples such as California Pinot to Burgundy, you are just going to run into personal preferences, and won't convince anybody.

Carl

[Robin Garr]

If you had to choose one European Red Wine to persuade California wine drinkers of merits of drinking European wines versus California wines what wine would you choose.

Just a suggestion, but I would avoid wines that have odd (off) tastes generated by wild or contaminant yeasts and bacteria.

If folks mention the same wines then I will try to buy it online.

Hmm, interesting and thought-provoking question! I'm not sure there's one single answer, as it kind of depends on what you want to accomplish.

1. Looking for a Euro-wine that will resemble a California wine in overall style? This is much easier than it used to be, because a fair number of European producers now make wines in the "Parkerized," "international" style, fruit-forward and squeaky clean. They're all over, but one specific niche that should please folks who love Oz Shiraz or Central Coast Pinot is the Sicilian <b>Nero d'Avola</b>. A lot of new-wave reds from Spain will fit into this category too, from <b>Priorat</b> or <b>Ribera del Duero</b>. The <B>Pétalos Mencia</b> from Bierzo in Northwestern Spain that I reported yesterday shouldn't offend anyone who loves California Petite Sirah, although to my way of thinking it was less monolithic, more multi-dimensional and balanced.

2. Looking for something completely different? Try a dry, mineral-driven white. Two excellent examples: <b>Muscadet de Sèvre et Maine</b> from the Loire, or <b>Grüner Veltliner</b> from Austria. Or of course just about any Riesling from the <B>Mosel</B> or the <B>Rhine</B>. Or <B>Chablis</B>, the real stuff.

3. Look for hearty, full-bodied reds that balance fruit and earth - Grenache-Syrah-Mourvedre blends from the <B>Rhone</b>, from <b>Cotes-du-Rhone</b> to <b>Chateauneuf-du-Pape</b>, or from Italy, <b>Tuscan</b> reds including <b>Chianti</b>. Check TNs or ask here if you want to avoid those funky, wild tastes, but be aware that many wine geeks just love that earthy character, so at some point you might want to come back to that niche, gingerly.

Just a few thoughts. Point is, though, in today's marketplace you can find Euro-wines that differ dramatically in style from the New World, but you can also find plenty of wines that you might be hard-pressed to distinguish from California wines in a blind tasting.

Look for hearty, full-bodied reds that balance fruit and earth - Grenache-Syrah-Mourvedre blends from the <B>Rhone</b>, from <b>Cotes-du-Rhone</b> to <b>Chateauneuf-du-Pape</b>, or from Italy, <b>Tuscan</b> reds including <b>Chianti</b>. Check TNs or ask here if you want to avoid those funky, wild tastes, but be aware that many wine geeks just love that earthy character, so at some point you might want to come back to that niche, gingerly.

Robin,
My first thought was a So France red with grenache-syrah-mourvedre blends as it if full bodied and hearty, something a new wine drinker would like. I was surprised at your remark on Chianti. Properly made in the classic style this wine should have a good dose of acid and go best with food. It is my #2 grape variety but would not think that it would be where a neophite should start.

As you know, I usually do not have much of an opinion, , but will offer a specific wine that I have been buying by the case. '04 Haut de la Brune from Vacqueyras for $10 is fantastic and everyone should enjoy.

Walt

Can't really pin it down to one wine. But I would probably go with either a Cru Beaujolais or a Southern Rhone.

Others can probably be a lot more specific with regards to particular wines, but both of these styles are going ( or most are) to be softer & fruiter than other European styles. Which would appeal to a lot of American palets.

I've introduced Southern Rhones to quite a few newbies and, just recently, passed on Cru Beaujolais advice to several friends.

Richard

[Robin Garr]

I was surprised at your remark on Chianti. Properly made in the classic style this wine should have a good dose of acid and go best with food. It is my #2 grape variety but would not think that it would be where a neophite should start.

Hmm ... a couple of disparate responses.

First, it may be a personal thing, but I think of Chianti as my ultimate comfort wine because it was really the first wine I enjoyed, long before I was old enough to be legal.

Second, you raise a good point but perhaps not the one you intended: Why should the fact that it's a "food wine" be disqualifying? Isn't wine intended to go with food? You may have touched on a core issue here: Do those who prefer California/New World wines also prefer to sip them as a cocktail, rather than with dinner as $Deity intended? I'd say that with most traditional European wines, it's simply assumed that they'll be served with food, and maybe this is a point that Rod should consider in his explorations.

I see no point to introducing New World wine drinkers to Old World wines that are like the wines they're used to. I'm pretty sure that California does the California style better than France ever will, and vice versa.

It took me a long time before I 'got' French wine. I tried several in my early days, in my price range, and they were tasteless, acidic, tannic crap. Plonk was a big step up. Then I joined a wine club, and received two botles of a Gevrey-Chambertin that absolutely knocked my socks off. Light garnet in color, I wasn't expecting much, but the nose was delightful, and the taste and mouthfeel more than lived up to it's promise. I took one sip, and said, "so this is what all the Burgundy excitement is about." It remains one of the two or three best wines I've ever tasted, and the best pinot noir. Unfortunately it was $30 a bottle back in 1990, so it's probably well into three figures now, even if I could remember which GC it was.

Since then, I've had a Cantenac-Brown that made a pretty good case for Bordeaux, and several good Rhones. In general, though, I stick with NW wines, because I like them, and the French wines I like as well tend to be much higher in price. I do buy some Italians, and have been buying a few Spanish wines of late.

Second, you raise a good point but perhaps not the one you intended: Why should the fact that it's a "food wine" be disqualifying? Isn't wine intended to go with food? You may have touched on a core issue here: Do those who prefer California/New World wines also prefer to sip them as a cocktail, rather than with dinner as $Deity intended? I'd say that with most traditional European wines, it's simply assumed that they'll be served with food, and maybe this is a point that Rod should consider in his explorations.

Robin,
You are correct, I made what may be an erroneous assumption. Most new world wines do not go with food as well as European wines, IMHO. I assumed the wine would be drank by itself and not with food. My negative opinions creep into many threads, try as I might to keept this from happening. I stll can't get that chard I had at a tasting last week with 18 months in new oak out of my mind.
Walt

Interesting eh. I was gonna reply earlier but weather/horse stable problems pulled me away.
For me Muscadet as the white and S Italy for the red, probably a NdA. I am enjoying all the posts here. I am looking at this question in a different light maybe...which wine(s) styles are not found in the USA wineproducing areas?
Whoops, here come the emails.

If you had to choose one European Red Wine to persuade California wine drinkers of merits of drinking European wines versus California wines what wine would you choose.

I'd rather choose a Californian 17% alc Zin as my advocate - sure to convince people to try alternatives!

There is such a wealth of styles out there, there could never be one wine to do it - that's pretty much the point of being interested in wine and also European wine, for the variety.

Sorry for avoiding the question

Ian

Hey, this is a no-brainer. Just pick a Southern Rhone that Parker gave a big score. Anybody raised on big Cali fruit bombs will most likely take to one of these like a duck to water.

On the other hand, I'm inclined to agree with Isaac: The exercise is pointless. People who drink California wines exclusively do so for lots of reasons, not all of which have to do with how they taste.

Thanks for the suggestions and comments. The goal is to develop a broader knowledge.

I am synthesizing your suggestions and will post a some wines that I plan to buy and you can tell me if I am headed in right direction. I think many of you are right about the ability/limitations of a CA trained wine drinker to expand. I lived in Europe in the Early 80's and really didn't like the wine I drank that much. I really started to like wine when I moved to CA.

So I am probably looking for wines that are not overly dry, tannic, and acidic with some fruit.

Here is a start of where I'll look:

Nero d'Avola

Cotes-du-Rhone

Beaujolais-Villages or Dolcetto D'Alba

Gevrey-Chambertin

Cantenac-Brown

Southern Rhone that Parker gave a big score

thanks for the help!!!

I guess I'd have to say that if you really want to make converts, you need something like a perfectly aged La Tour. in my experience, a really great Bordeaux that's driking well will make most people sit up and take notice whether it resembles a California wine or not. (Of course, you wouldn't want to serve it right after the Turley!)

There is, however, that slight problem with the price of such bottles....



Mike

[David M. Bueker]

Mike raises a good point about a Latour, but if you pour a 7-10 year old unclassified, but repsectable Bordeaux (or even an underappreciated, classified wine like Prieur-Lichine) you could make friends for life. Now I would not specifically go for the P-L since they were lousy from about 1986-1998, but perhaps a 1999 Lichine would work after all. 1999 is a great Bordeaux vintage to hook people with, as it's easier to drink than many other recent vintages.

For those who prefer more vibrant fruit, a wine like 1999 Monbousquet would go over very well.

The tacks taken by the posters so far are right on. If you get into comparing apples to apples such as California Pinot to Burgundy, you are just going to run into personal preferences, and won't convince anybody.

Carl,

I'm not sure I quite agree. Tasting a well aged DRC La Tache can show a Californiaphile what wine, and particularly Pinot Noir, can aspire to. If that won't convince them nothing will.

If you had to choose one European Red Wine to persuade California wine drinkers of merits of drinking European wines versus California wines what wine would you choose.

Just a suggestion, but I would avoid wines that have odd (off) tastes generated by wild or contaminant yeasts and bacteria.

If folks mention the same wines then I will try to buy it online.

Thanks

How about a wine to inform that drinker that they are no longer in CA-something very European? I would nominate Loire Cab Franc, old-school Rioja (Lopez Heredia maybe), Wachau Gruener Veltliner (Prager, F.X. Pichler), any good Champagne, German MSR Riesling, cheaper Bordeaux, expensive Burgundy, and Almacenista sherry to name a few.



Happy drinkin'
Bill

Now I would not specifically go for the P-L since they were lousy from about 1986-1998, but perhaps a 1999 Lichine would work after all. 1999 is a great Bordeaux vintage to hook people with, as it's easier to drink than many other recent vintages.

I am training myself and my brother on French wines. I have to say I still kinda liked the 1996 P-L-very, very red fruit and austere; now you have intrigued me as to what a better vintage of this wine would taste like.

[James Roscoe]

On Christmas with a rib roast I first popped an '03 CdP. My friend with the California fruit bomb tastes loved it. I thought it was typical of the vintage. The '96 Pomerol was much better.

03 CdP = ? Chateauneuf-du-Pape?

DRC La Tache would be the last one I drink because I could not afford...... the doctor bills after my wife beat me senseless. Let me see if my rich friends will want a wine education.