WTN: Kid Stuff (St. Innocent)

[Jenise]

Last night's main course was a maitake mushroom risotto, and I was reaching for a Produttori when I changed my mind and decided to see how these 2005 St. Innocent Seven Springs pinots I recently discovered I had four of are doing. If they were especially mature, that flavor would play to the dish. Ha! For a 13 year old American pinot, almost ridiculously youthful color and vibrant OR pinot flavors: plum, boysenberry, mushrooms etc. Enjoyed over two hours and not decanted, and the very last sip was the best. This wine hasn't peaked yet! Will plan on drinking remaining bottles thru 2025.

Yum. I need to dig one of these out. I also have some of the special selection. Looking at CT I paid $30 for the regular stuff. Nice.

A few weeks ago I was at Patricia Green and Jim opened one of there 2005s (spacing on what it was) which IIRC was from the Ribbon Ridge AVA and it was stunning. Delicious now. But no signs of fading. I think 2005 has proven to be a fabulous vintage.

Best,

Jason

[Jenise]

Jason, I've had many Patricia Greens but none have ever turned me on. What's wrong with me? I find them a bit over-extracted and sweet.

Jason, I've had many Patricia Greens but none have ever turned me on. What's wrong with me? I find them a bit over-extracted and sweet.

Here is my story. Jim was one of the first wine-makers I visited back around 1999/2000 IIRC and I learned a lot and started buying the wines. But I moved on to different producers and Patty Green went a little bit off my radar. Last year, Jim invited me to his house to taste the 2012s, a vintage I had planned to skip. We tasted a ton of wine and they were outstanding. Other than maybe the Dundee Hills stuff (which was still great), I didn't find anything sweet. And in a ripe vintage. Extraction levels don't generally jump out at me so I can't speak to that.

And then he started grabbing stuff from his cellar and served them blind. They were eye opening. Even a 2003 was outstanding. Beautiful. That is a rare comment with regards to 2003.

I visited the winery in February and we went through all the 2015s.They were very good but in the end, while I did concede that 2012 was actually a wonderful vintage, I have not been, in general, a fan of 2014 or 2015. That said, I still prefer the wines from Ribbon Ridge and Freedom Hill Vineyard. But they need time.

Sorry for blathering on. This just happened to be a recent journey for me, where I moved Patricia Green Wines near to the top of producers in Oregon. I wish I hadn't missed out on the 05s, 07s & 08s.

Jason

[Jenise]

I appreciate your taking the time to reply. I've tried them on and off over the last 20 years. They're always spoken of in high regard. But all have definitely seemed to be that certain house style that strikes me as overweight. Last October on a camping trip down on the coast I bought a bottle just to see if anything had changed. No. Same wine. Maybe it takes time for the complexity to come around, or maybe I'm just tone deaf to what they do.

Probably not a fit for you. I know wines that people love, and people who have palates that seem to align with me love them, but they just don't work for me. Like I say with Patty Green, it was a long journey for me. But I will go light on recent vintages since I am not a fan of 2014 or 2015. Oregon is really due for a cool vintage.

Jason

[Jenise]

I'd love another cool vintage that's closer to '11 but not quite that severe. For a long time they've seemed to be mostly be too cold or too hot without hitting 'just right'.

[David M. Bueker]

I'd love another cool vintage that's closer to '11 but not quite that severe. For a long time they've seemed to be mostly be too cold or too hot without hitting 'just right'.

If you only love Oregon Pinot Noir when it hits a very specific profile, do you really love Oregon Pinot Noir?

[Jenise]

Did I say I only love a specific profile? I think not. I enjoy a lot of Oregon pinots, I just don't care for Patricia Green or 14.5% alcohols. There was a time when the latter wasn't as prevalent as it is today.

I quite like Oregon Pinot Noirs, pretty much across the board. I don't like---or rather, am not entranced by---some producers. The problems of both weather/climate and prevailing styles can often result in over-blown, high-alcohol, glossy fat PNs, and those aren't my style.

I think PN in particular (along with Riesling and, I'd say, Sangiovese) do not benefit overly much from high-alcohol, high-sugars, new barrel, manipulation. So that puts me in much the same camp as Jenise: I have always been an unabashed fan of the St. Innocents. Not so much the Patricia Greens---it doesn't mean I don't enjoy PG; it simply means I have a preference for the more restrained and (to me) much more terroir-driven style of SI.

I'd also include the Bethel Heights (especially South East and Flat Block) as long term, vintage-doesn't-matter-as-much-as-expression, ongoing sensibility and restraint.

But then I am one of those flavor-haters we all hear about...

[David M. Bueker]

Did I say I only love a specific profile? I think not. I enjoy a lot of Oregon pinots, I just don't care for Patricia Green or 14.5% alcohols. There was a time when the latter wasn't as prevalent as it is today.

Just reacting to your stated desire for a very specific type of vintage.

[Jenise]

Did I say I only love a specific profile? I think not. I enjoy a lot of Oregon pinots, I just don't care for Patricia Green or 14.5% alcohols. There was a time when the latter wasn't as prevalent as it is today.

Just reacting to your stated desire for a very specific type of vintage.

Fair enough.

I just remember falling in love with Oregon pinots in the 90's when the extremes weren't as intense.

[David M. Bueker]

Me too. Things got way too variable for me around 2005/2006, and I dropped out soon after. My foray into Division is my first real venture back to Oregon in years.

[Jenise]

That said, I don't buy as many Oregonians as I do California. Off the top of my head I have Cristom, Evening Land, St. Innocent and Ayoub and I can't recall any others. Where I probably have 30 different labels in California wine. I have yet to taste any Oregon pinot that matches the sublimity of Rivers-Marie, for instance. And I've just started getting into William Selyem again. (In fact, I have two deliveries of WS coming this week--don't tell my husband.)

I'm fine with saying I don't like the profile of certain vintages, but still saying I love Oregon pinots. I like 2010 and 2011 even though they are totally different. That is why a great prefer Oregon to Cali pinot. There is, or least historically, vintage differences. With Cali you have ripe and super ripe. There has just been a big string of warm vintages in Oregon. I'm ready for a cool one.

And I've just started getting into William Selyem again. (In fact, I have two deliveries of WS coming this week--don't tell my husband.)

Interesting. Has the style changed. I never became a fan of Bob's wines but I think there is a new wine-maker. I finally gave up on them in 2004 or maybe 2005. So sad considering Burt probably made the greatest American pinots ... ever!

BTW, Jenise, you might want to check Walter Scott wines. Ken Pahlow, spent many years with Mark Vlossak and then with Dominique Lafon. Their winery is on Bethel Heights Road overlooking Justice Vineyard. I think Chardonnay will be their flagship but the pinots are very impressive as well. Definitely focused on low alcohol and they have some of the best vineyards in Oregon. Freedom Hill, Temperance Hill, Seven Springs, and the instant legend, X Novo.

Jason

[Jenise]

Interesting. Has the style changed. I never became a fan of Bob's wines but I think there is a new wine-maker. I finally gave up on them in 2004 or maybe 2005. So sad considering Burt probably made the greatest American pinots ... ever!

I don't know if the style's changed or not. I was on the list back in Burt and Ed's day but bailed when they sold. Didn't trust the new regime. I had virtually no recent experience before buying a bottle of the '14 RR and was blown away by it. It's a BIG wine, but it does big well in a Grand Cru kind of way, and has the goods for the long haul. It definitely doesn't resemble the WS I remember, but friends in Alaska (where I was living when I got into them) stayed with them and are just as crazy about them now as they ever were. So I got on the list and bought a smattering of 15's, plus four back vintage bottles to play catch-up with on Winebid. All were delivered this week. No idea what I'm going to think when I get into them but I now own 15 bottles and it's going to be fun finding out.