Burgundy vs Beaujolais question/comment

I was just reading an internet blurb from Wine Access about a Fleurie that was so wonderful and such a great price for a Burgundy. I gave up on Beaujolais many years ago and certainly never confused them with red Burgundies. Gamay has always been to me a simple red quaffer with little/no complexity which is a far cry from great Burgundies, which sadly I have had few of. Am I missing something? Have the young turks in Beaujolais done great things in the last 2 decades that I am not aware of? The internet ad uses the terms Burgundy and Beaujolais interchangeably which I found strange. I will admit to enjoying a few Moulin au Vents in the past but still nothing to sip and ponder. Just my curmudgeon side coming out on a dreary cold Sunday.

For a long time, Beaujolais has been part of Burgundy viticulturally, and Chardonays from the Beaujolais region could be sold as Bourgogne Blanc. I was told that usually only oaked ones were, and unoaked ones were sold as white Beaujolais. Not sure about any Pinot Noir from Beaujolais - maybe there wasn't any to speak of.

A few years ago however, there were some changes in the lower Burgundy appellations which affected Beaujolais, but I cannot remember what they were, and have failed to quickly find them with google. Maybe someone can help out, or I could have another go later.

Politically, Beaujolais is not part of Burgundy. Though Pouilly (of Pouilly-Fumé fame) is, even if it belongs to the Loire viticulturally.

Edit: Here are the changes I couldn't find earlier: http://www.decanter.com/wine-news/major ... ais-34638/

Gamay has always been to me a simple red quaffer with little/no complexity which is a far cry from great Burgundies.

Of course, even if you exclude Beaujolais, an awful lot of Burgundy is also a far cry from greatness!

It is easy to forget that there is a lot more to Burgundy than the Côte d'Or, and a lot more to the Côte d'Or than the Grand Crus.

It is easy to forget that there is a lot more to Burgundy than the Côte d'Or, and a lot more to the Côte d'Or than the Grand Crus.

And that there are plenty of sucky to mediocre PCs and GCs!

There's a lot of boring Beaujolais. But there's plenty of boring Bourgogne, Cotes Chalonaise, village Burgundies, etc. While I don't think that the best Cru Beaujolais equal a truly great Burgundy, I think better Beaujolais compete very favorably at equivalent price levels. The most expensive Beaujolais I've ever bought- various vintages of Lapierre "Cuvee Marcel" and Foillard 3.14 -cost considerably less than village wines of top Cote d'Or producers. I know some people I respect (David for one I believe) don't think Beaujolais gains from aging, but I've had beautiful bottles of 10-20 year old Beaujolais (I just pulled some 2005s for neartime consumption). While older Beaujolais can "pinotize" I think Gamay is best judged on its own, not compared to PN, and for me it can be a wonderful grape (and capable of complexity)

That said while Beaujolais is indeed technically Burgundy, the terms shouldn't be used interchangeably as you say they were in ad.

Jim, I'm with you. Regardless of a labeling loophole, or political boundary, I don't think of red Beaujolais as Burgundy. I've had some good ones, but for the most part, they haven't reached the quality equivalent of a Savigny-Les-Beaune from a good producer, let alone a Grand Cru Burgundy. Some of the best that I've had have been well-aged Grand Crus that were served by Mike Conner at MoCool (pre-cool). Beaujolais blanc, on the other hand, is similar to a Macon-Villages, but I've not had one that reaches the level of the best of those.

Hi Dave, nice to hear from you. It was indeed a dreary cold Sunday but ended on a high note for me as I finally got a deer late in the day, an average sized doe. Tenderloins tonight with maybe a 2005 Bordeaux or Cal Cab. of similar age!

[David M. Bueker]

My thoughts on aging Beaujolais have been altered somewhat, if not conclusively.

That being said, top Beaujolais often beats equivalently priced Bourgogne for overall quality and complexity IMNSHO.

That being said, top Beaujolais often beats equivalently priced Bourgogne for overall quality and complexity IMNSHO.

I agree with that, although Burgundy does win for elegance and finesse, even when it's of moderate quality and complexity.

And I know people like to harp about how the wines are soooo different and could not possibly be considered replacements for each other. And I yes, I understand the flavors and tannin structures are different. But in the grand scheme of things they both tend to be relatively-light red wines, so they occupy a somewhat similar spot in my roster. Although of course specific pairings/matchings are always dictated by the specific bottles in question.

That being said, top Beaujolais often beats equivalently priced Bourgogne for overall quality and complexity IMNSHO.

I agree with that, although Burgundy does win for elegance and finesse, even when it's of moderate quality and complexity.

And I know people like to harp about how the wines are soooo different and could not possibly be considered replacements for each other. And I yes, I understand the flavors and tannin structures are different. But in the grand scheme of things they both tend to be relatively-light red wines, so they occupy a somewhat similar spot in my roster. Although of course specific pairings/matchings are always dictated by the specific bottles in question.

I don't fully go along with that. Baeujolais is supreme in producing "fun" wines full of tangy savoury fruit for drinking young whereas Burgundy, at least from the Côte d'Or, produces wonderfully subtle, elegant and more "serious" wines which mostly benefit from quite a lot of ageing. I know that many Beaujolais producers are migrating in a more "serious" direction with more concentration and extraction as well as wood ageing but I am still waiting to taste a 10 year+ Moulin-à-Vent or Morgon, which really rivals a village Burgundy of similar age.
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That being said, top Beaujolais often beats equivalently priced Bourgogne for overall quality and complexity IMNSHO.

I don't fully go along with that. Baeujolais is supreme in producing "fun" wines full of tangy savoury fruit for drinking young whereas Burgundy, at least from the Côte d'Or, produces wonderfully subtle, elegant and more "serious" wines which mostly benefit from quite a lot of ageing.

You are juxtaposing fun vs. serious, which I would largely agree with. But that has nothing to do with David's point about being able to get more quality and complexity from similarly-priced wines in Beaujolais as opposed to Burgundy.

The lower priced Burgundy wines that are more subtle, elegant and serious are at the same time all too often simple and not the highest quality.

I'll be popping some 05 Beaujolais soon (opened a box with Chermette Poncie , Roilette Tardive, etc) and based on previous experience I'm betting that I like the results. I served the '99 Coudert/Roilette Tardive at one of my 50th birthday celebrations (2010) and it was one of my WOTN. I'm not sure I would call it super-complex, but it was super fun and super tasty at age 11. These are wines that still sell for $20-22 on release. It's hard to find Bourgogne from a producer at that, and I'm straining to think of a good ageable village wine that runs $30 (most are $40-50) - maybe Pavelot SlB, but I tend to drink those young and age the Pavelot 1ers.

It's probably still true that village Burgundy from most Côte d'Or appellations is more expensive than the more ambitious and wooded Beaujolais crus but that is not the long term intention of the producers, like Jadot, investing in that style. Some cuvées are getting close to €30 ex-cellars. RVF did an interesting review of Beaujolais recently, of which I posted a précis in the Gamay WF thread.

My hunting ground for Burgundian (i.e.PN) QPR has been the Côte Chalonnaise where producers like Jacqueson, Lumpp, Joblot and Dureuil-Janthial were producing very enjoyable 1er crus for c.€20. However the prices for these are now edging up towards €30. There are good values to be found in peripheral Côte d'Or villages like Santenay, St.Romain, St.Aubin, Chorey-lès-Beaune, Ladoix, Marsannay, Fixin.........and quality is on the rise in northern Burgundy, for example Côtes d'Auxerre, Irancy.....(but still at less than €20 )

[David M. Bueker]

I would expect that your selection from lesser known Burgundian terroirs is much greater than we see in the USA. We can easily find Jadot's Fixin, but not many others. There is one (Drouhin) Chorey Les Beaune readily available in the USA.