Wine from Hybrid grape

I live in Brazil and there is a commercial limitation to wines from hybrids. They are even starting to call "resistant grapes" due to the pejorative concept the market have on "hybrids". The legislation here limits the term "fine wine" to 100% vinifera, no exceptions. If there is presence of any other vitis (in genoma) the wine become called "table wine" or "common wine".

I see in Germany they work with hybrids, and I've been reading about hybrids varieties produced in Minesota (seeking cold resistance) for vinification.

How does it work in your country?

In the EU, the rule is (unless it has changed relatively recently) that hybrids are not allowed in PDO wines. In the UK, hybrids are used quite extensively, and we fought quite hard for exceptions to be made to the rule for certain varieties - in particular Seyval Blanc. But to no avail. I presume that throughout the EU there are no exceptions.

When we leave the EU and "take back control", I suppose we will be able put whatever shit we want into our wines. Getting other countries to buy them will be another issue.

Hmm, I don't recall finding many hybrids growing in Germany. But in the cooler growing regions of the northern US and Canada they are quite common. The region I am most familiar with, NY Finger Lakes, has evolved from growing labrusca in the old days to French-American hybrids like Seyval Blanc, Baco Noir, Cayuga, Ravat 51, Chancellor, etc for wine in the 60s onward. Slowly at first, but now quite commonly, vinifera rules the roost for quality wines. There are still hybrids grown, with some high quality exceptions like late harvest Vignoles (another name for Ravat 51) or the cheaper end of the range 'table wines' at mainly vinifera wineries.

There doesn't seem to be any limitations on how the wines can be labeled in N. America, and most of the appellations are geographic, e.g. 'Finger Lakes', although organizations like VQA in Niagara might have some restrictions on hybrids. IMO, the white hyrbrids can be quite good, but I can't say I have developed a taste for the reds.

[David M. Bueker]

Crossings (e.g. Scheurebe) are common in Germany. Hybrids are essentially not seen.

Hmm nice... thank you for the replies!

The researchers here in Brazil are doing consecutives cross-reproduction between a "resistant" grape (mostly labrusca imo) and a vinifera, trying to put as much of the vinifera gene keeping the tolerance or resistance aspect. They talk about 31/32 of vinifera gene. Is this a global tendency in, let's say, not perfect climates?

Another thing I'd like to hear from you is about (laboratory made) transgenic grape varieties, do they even exist? I don't know about the commercial restriction it would have, but the vinification of an apirenic (seedless) grape looks tempting for me.

Crossings (e.g. Scheurebe) are common in Germany. Hybrids are essentially not seen.

There's this one, Regent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_(grape)

[David M. Bueker]

Yeah, but not much else. Hence my "generally" comment.

By the way, Regent is really weird. I have had it. Have you?

organizations like VQA in Niagara might have some restrictions on hybrids.

They do. I recall from my visits there that Baco Noir (that I enjoy) and Vidal Blanc (that makes a good ice-wine) have VQA status.

A look at the VQA site say another 6 varieties, two of which I can't recall encountering, also are allowed VQA

Only 8 'best of breed' hybrids are allowed VQA status

Baco Noir
Chambourcin
Chancellor 
Couderc Muscat
Maréchal Foch
Seyval Blanc
Vidal Blanc
Villard Noir

When we leave the EU and "take back control", I suppose we will be able put whatever shit we want into our wines.

from the English Wine site

Much English wine is made from hybrid vines. Irrespective of the objective quality of the wine, wine from hybrid vines is ineligible for inclusion in the Quality Wine scheme. This has nothing to do with quality but everything to do with traditionalism, protectionism and restrictive practices by the wine producers of other countries (notably France).

But there has been a big move from odd varieties to planting the Champagne 3.

Yeah, but not much else. Hence my "generally" comment.
By the way, Regent is really weird. I have had it. Have you?

No, but I'd like to, as it sounds like it has some interesting qualities from a growing point of view. There are a few nurseries in the US that sell the vines.

[David M. Bueker]

To me it seemed like Syrah that had lost its structure.

In Germany there are a small group of wineries that are working with a lot of Hybrid grapes that have been bred for their resistance to oidium, peronospora and botrytis. They were/are marketed as grapes that need little to no fungicide sprays. Regent has already been mentioned and was at one time (late 1990s) thought to be the answer. As it turned out, it is actually pretty sensitive to pero (downy mildew), so you need to hit it with copper to keep that at bay. As David said, it isn't particularly good, but makes a decent spicy though rather non-descript red wine. Other popular varieties are Johanniter, Bronner, and especially Cabernet Blanc for white wines and Regent and Rondo for reds. Cabernet Blanc is an aromatic variety similar in flavor to Sauvignon Blanc, though what I've tried hasn't been quite there yet. The leading winery for 'Piwi' grapes as they are known (pilzwiderstandsfähig) is probably Weingut Rummel in Nußdorf who makes organic wines from these and vitis vinifera

From a quality standpoint, piwis are not on the same level as the classic varieties, but can be interesting enough, and it would be quite the accomplishment to find a variety that required no spraying whatsoever.

The Minnesota-bred cold-hardy grapes are pretty foxy-tasting (frontenac and Marquette) and every vineyard I've seen has been over-run with phylloxera. American grape rootstock is of course resistant to phylloxera while the scion is very susceptible, while the European scion is resistant.

Cheers,
Bill

There’s some Washington State Vineyards also “experimenting” with Regent grapes. The color of this wine (which was a very “deep dark red color”) threw me off. One would expect a “deep dark red color” wine too have a substantial amount of tannin. I think bulk aging and barrel regime does help in this regard.

Salute

But there has been a big move [in England] from odd varieties to planting the Champagne 3.

Indeed, Peter. After posting I realised I should perhaps have made that point.

Lots of hybrid vines here in New England, mainly, I think, for the cold resistance. Except for a few vineyards near the coast, pure vinifera vines have to have dirt mounded around them to survive the cold around here. V. labrusca and a few other Vitis species grow wild here.

-Paul W.