Open Mike: California Barbera.

There has been fair and interesting discussion here on this forum regarding Barbera fron California. So in my typical "Rally-Ra-Ra" mode, hows about we look around and see whats in the cellar or on the shelf of the local fav. winestore. Maybe if there is enough interest, I will open a Barbera d`Asti to compare notes!!

Some of the wineries mentioned include Montevina, Dillian, Boeger, Seghesio, Runquist, Renwood. In fact, I seem to recall that Rabbit Ridge used to make a barbera too, maybe a blend? I`ll look around here and see if I can find anything, even though the weather is turning real rough outside.

Complete novice when it comes to Barbera. I've tried Montevina a couple of years ago, and a local (Solano County) producer as well.

I tried a interesting Lodi Barbera this weekend that is probably not varietally correct at all-Borra Vineyards. Not the acid, berry fruit character you guys have been talking about. Very, very "smokey"-I suppose that's the oak, but it's a different kind of "oak experience" than any other I've had! Their other wines were not particularly oaky at all, so I am intrigued by the reason for this character. I did enjoy the wine quite a bit-it went well with braised veal shanks and polenta.

Good Idea! I will pull out a Deaver Barbera this weekend. They can be purchased online from the winery, but they haven't had to (or haven't gotten it together enough) to sell to distributors. This will be the fourth Barbera I have tasted in last few weeks. This is why I have enjoyed the Barbera discussion so much. I live 10 miles from both the Shenandoah and the Fair Play Vineyards.

I get to socialize with many of the winemakers. One of my favorite questions is how much do they add tartaric acid and can one tell in the taste. I asked Scott Harvey the question in Dec. He says he always adds it if the ph of the grapes is not at (I forget the number) at the time of harvest...note I am getting back on topic because his Amador Barbera is very good and readily available.

Excuse my ignorance, but what regions of Italia produce the best Barbera's.

Hey Bob,

We have a bottle of the '04 Barbera from Boeger that I'll see if we can get to this weekend. My father-in-law brought it back when he visited his sisters in San Diego.

I've had a zin from Boeger that I wasn't a fan of, so we'll see how the Barbera does.

Rod, Boeger is in your neck of the woods, if I'm not mistaken. Any comments on the winery?

That is great news Mike B. No Barbera around here except for Renwood. Checked out my Lebanon wine store today (whisper), nothing except for `01 Hochar.

Try the Renwood Bob. They have shown a tendacy towards being overly corporate. The criticism on this board is true..their wines are strangely similar. Some are very good depending on the vineyard like has been mentioned. The owner has a reputation of being ruthless.

Regarding Boeger, the site was a vineyard during the gold rush. Gold was dicovered down the canyon from the vineyard. I believe most of it was planted during the mid 70's. The son Justin Boeger has taken over winemaking and I really prefer his wines. Justin is a UC Davis Grad. The market likes the son's wines they are selling well. The Dad tried to break the Terrior IMHO and made the wines overly acid and lost some fruit to acid. Climate is a part of Terrior, right. The area averages about 10 days a year with temps above 100. The evenings are cooled by the Sierra Mountains and arid climate. Barbera does well because it provides both nice fruit and acid structure despite the heat. This area does not do Cabernet well. Boeger is located in a fruit growing area. Vineyards are replacing the apples and peaches this time around. Maybe this is a natural cycle.

Their Barbera has the great fruit favor of the local barbera's. Like most of the region's wine it is not bone dry and vintages vary in acid. Some day I hope to make this one of my everyday wines.

And that would be some of the LouisMartini's from the '60-'70's.
Easily the best Barbera being made in Calif these days is the Palmina, by Steve Cliftonb down in SantaBarbara.
Back in the old days (by crackey), back in the late '70's, Cary Gott made some of the finest Barberas ever produced in the world. Jeff Meyers (Montevina) is billed (in their Newsletter) as the Baron of Barbera, but I feel that's a bit overblown. His current Montevina Barberas are nice, maybe the best wine he makes, but just that.
Scott Harvey made also some world-class Barberas at Renwood, in their early days. Even made a GrandPere Barbera one year from the small amount of Barbera out of that vnyd. I' too, find the current Montevina Barberas too corporate (vapid is the term I'd more likely use).
There used to be some excellent Barberas from MontereyPenninsulaWnry back in the '70's, from old vnyds in SanBenitoCnty.
Ridge even made a Barbera one year that was pretty good.
Greg Graziano has made some pretty good Barberas up in Mendocino under his MonteVolpe label.
It's a variety that gets little respect in Calif, but can, in fact, make world-class wines. You just won't mistake them for Piedmontese versions.
Tom

That is great news Mike B. No Barbera around here except for Renwood. Checked out my Lebanon wine store today (whisper), nothing except for `01 Hochar.

Bob, tell me a little about your local Lebanon wine store, and the 01 Hochar. Is this wine from Musar? The name Hochar would imply that it is. So what is in the bottle and what does it cost up there in the frozen north?

Bob, tell me a little about your local Lebanon wine store, and the 01 Hochar. Is this wine from Musar? The name Hochar would imply that it is. So what is in the bottle and what does it cost up there in the frozen north?

Bob H, I'm certain it's the Musar Pere & Fils Bob P. is referring to.

Bob P, please do tell about this wine store.

$22 Cdn. It is a small mom/pop operation on 107 Ave and 111 st. There used to be a good stock of wines of Lebanon about 4/5 yrs ago but now not worth a visit unless one wants to buy Piat d`Or, Blue Nun and the usual hearty Gallo stuff!!
Apparently the local restaurants buy their Musar from Montreal!!!!

****** no Barbera in sight there.

Bob,
You seem to have become the "keeper of the mike" but this thing is getting too confusing for me. On Jan 6 the wine announced was Montepulciano D'Abruzzo, one of my favorites and I was ready to go. Now on Jan 9 is has become Ca Barbera. Am I missing something? What is the wine? It really isn't important but wouldn't it be best to have only one a week and try and get as many people as possible envolved in the tasting? Just a comment from the peanut gallery.
Walt

Robin thought we could have more than one OM going at one time. I thought this Barbera might be interesting as quite a few forumites had joined in with postings.

Robin thought we could have more than one OM going at one time. I thought this Barbera might be interesting as quite a few forumites had joined in with postings.

I knew Robin was at the bottom of this.
Walt

I'll bet this will be mainstream in ten years, like Pinot Grigio now.

Modesty forbids describing the sheer deliciousness of the Palmina, as I sell Palmina wines and don't want to be accused of rank self-promotion, but Untii is also making excellent wine from this variety. Haven't had the Montevina.

[Robin Garr]

I knew Robin was at the bottom of this.
Walt

[Bwahahahaaaa!]

Just to re-clarify, Walt, again ... Open Mike is a very casual thing. It's okay to have several running at once - different people have different interests - and they're generally non-expiring. In other words, you're still welcome to post in Montepulciano, and it's your call whether to post in Barbera. (I'm not much of a fancier of California Barbera myself.)

I knew Robin was at the bottom of this.
Walt

[Bwahahahaaaa!]

Just to re-clarify, Walt, again ... Open Mike is a very casual thing. It's okay to have several running at once - different people have different interests - and they're generally non-expiring. In other words, you're still welcome to post in Montepulciano, and it's your call whether to post in Barbera. (I'm not much of a fancier of California Barbera myself.)

OK Robin,

I am just easily confused. I thought the idea was to get as many people as possible to try the same wine and report on it. Like you, I see no reason to drink a CA Barbera, but hey, I don't drink much from CA and also do not drink Italian Cabs or Australian Shiraz. Got meant some grapes to be grown and certain places and when you mess with Mother Nature you lose.

Just came back from a tasting where the wine maker from Beringer show cased his new releases under his own label. His name begins with Sbxxxx. Nice guy and certainly Berringer PR are some of the finest wines made in CA. His Chardonnay was one of the worst things I have ever put in my mouth. 100% malo and 100% new french oak for 18 months. All you could taste was butter and oak. Asked him why he did this and was ready for a follow up on "isn't the trend moving in the opposite directions?" He could not answer my first question except with " the wines can take it". Not sure whether God meant Chardonnay to be grown only in Chablis or if America just has some type of oak fetish. Last night had a $8 Spanish white from some unknown grape that was delicious and Marcia loved it. If I tried to serve her the Chardonnay from the tasting she would hit me in the head with the bottle.
Walt

Walt:

That would be Ed Sbragia, and the winery would be Sbragia Family Wines.

If you look at the style of Chardonnays (at the top end) that Beringer is famous for, you'd naturally assume that Ed would be a proponent of that style.

Mind you, I don't care for that style myself, but Ed is a pretty damned good winemaker, and he makes good wine. For those who like buttery/creamy/malo/oaky/ripe versions of Chardonnay, Ed is tops.

I understand you prefer your Chardonnays in a specific style, within a specific range, and usually from specific favored places. What I can't understand is why you condemn and ban other places and other styles that don't fit your personal preferences, when obviously a great many people like those wines.

I drink Coke, but I don't look down on people who drink Pepsi. And I even have a friend who drinks Tab...not that there's anything wrong with that.

Hey, if they're out there driving up the prices of wines you don't want to drink, that means they're leaving the wines you do like alone! And that's a good thing, right?

Walt:

That would be Ed Sbragia, and the winery would be Sbragia Family Wines.

I understand you prefer your Chardonnays in a specific style, within a specific range, and usually from specific favored places. What I can't understand is why you condemn and ban other places and other styles that don't fit your personal preferences, when obviously a great many people like those wines.

Hey, if they're out there driving up the prices of wines you don't want to drink, that means they're leaving the wines you do like alone! And that's a good thing, right?

Hoke,
That's the guy. Seemed like a nice fellow and certainly has made some great wines for Beringer.

Don't mean to attack other people's wine preferences as my comments only relate to my likes and dislikes. The one thing I do find odd is that regardless of your preference it would seem that you want to taste the vineyard and grape regardless if it is a chardonnay, SB, riesling, tocai etc. The problem I have with many CA chardonnay, and it is predominately with this grape more than any other red or white, is that you seem to only taste butter and oak. Where is the wine. When it comes to Bordeaux, CA cab, Sangiovese, PN, CB, riesling or any other wine the preferences are more stylistic but all seem to reveal the grape in one degree or another.

Have to admit to enjoy wines the RP tends to rate about 85, wines that take many years to reveal themselves, wines with less oak, wines from roads less traveled plus a few other attributes. Yes they can sometimes be a liittle less $ but have the feeling that the pendulem is swinging in that direction so my joy may be short lived. The tendency away from big oaky, buttery chards was really what I found interesting about the Sbragia chard as I cannot imagine making a wine any bigger, oakier or buttery.

I still feel that a grape has to a large degree a "home" that has developed over the years due to climate, soil, food(may be chicken or the egg) and history where it is best revealed. We have discussed this in the past and if I remember you are more for the "experimental" nature of wine. I am just a conservative kind of guy, except in politics. Opps, guess that's a different subject.
Walt

We have discussed this in the past and if I remember you are more for the "experimental" nature of wine.

Well, I am in one sense, but I also totally understand, and agree with what you're saying, Walt. And I would say we probably like many of the same wines, and the same style of wines, for the same reasons.

I like experimental in the sense of people being able to take what they have and express it the way they thing is right or appropriate. And in the sense that there is no single "right" way, no prescribed way, to do things, or to express things.

Let's see, how to say it? Okay: I love Burgundian Pinot Noir beyond belief. It's as close to the ultimate expression of what I want wine to be as anything I know. (Well, I could say that about Riesling too, but that's on another night.) Yet I don't say, "No other Pinot Noir made in any other way from any other place interests me because it's not Burgundy." That, to me, is wrong. I like seeing what happens when other people do other things in other places with that grape variety (and with different clones of that variety as well). I like seeing how Pinot Noir expresses itself under the hands of different people. Even if I don't like a particular wine---say, like the general run of the 'Pinot Syrahs' that are enjoying the vogue right now, even then I try to assess it to fit it into the spectrum of what Pinot Noir is. For me.

Yeah, I'm always on the quest for the new, the different, the adventurous, sure, and some of those things I may never try again. But I want to know about them. At the same time, when I occasionally stumble on that perfect Burgundian Pinot that makes my soul sing, I can celebrate that----but not want to end that quest I am on either.

As to Ed, yes, he's a great guy---which is apropos of nothing in particular, except that he is a very skilled and dedicated winemaker. I think, personally, that he's been working on that particular style of Chardonnay for so long, that's his benchmark, so that's what he continues to do. I'd love to see him make a chillingly austere Chablis-style Chardonnay---but I'm not sure that is where his heart and soul and instinct and skill is, so maybe it wouldn't be that profound. But maybe.

Guess I'm just a raging liberal---and not just politically and socially, but in all other aspects of life as well. I think it's a big wide wonderful world of wine out there, and I want to experience as much of it as I can...knowing I won't like some of it, but knowing someone will, and knowing that I will like most of it.

'Pinot Syrahs' that are enjoying the vogue right now

That is an interesting moniker that I have not run into before. What do you mean by 'pinot syrah'?

We have discussed this in the past and if I remember you are more for the "experimental" nature of wine.

Well, I am in one sense, but I also totally understand, and agree with what you're saying, Walt. And I would say we probably like many of the same wines, and the same style of wines, for the same reasons.

I like experimental in the sense of people being able to take what they have and express it the way they thing is right or appropriate. And in the sense that there is no single "right" way, no prescribed way, to do things, or to express things.

Let's see, how to say it? Okay: I love Burgundian Pinot Noir beyond belief. It's as close to the ultimate expression of what I want wine to be as anything I know. (Well, I could say that about Riesling too, but that's on another night.) Yet I don't say, "No other Pinot Noir made in any other way from any other place interests me because it's not Burgundy." That, to me, is wrong. I like seeing what happens when other people do other things in other places with that grape variety (and with different clones of that variety as well). I like seeing how Pinot Noir expresses itself under the hands of different people. Even if I don't like a particular wine---say, like the general run of the 'Pinot Syrahs' that are enjoying the vogue right now, even then I try to assess it to fit it into the spectrum of what Pinot Noir is. For me.

Yeah, I'm always on the quest for the new, the different, the adventurous, sure, and some of those things I may never try again. But I want to know about them. At the same time, when I occasionally stumble on that perfect Burgundian Pinot that makes my soul sing, I can celebrate that----but not want to end that quest I am on either.

As to Ed, yes, he's a great guy---which is apropos of nothing in particular, except that he is a very skilled and dedicated winemaker. I think, personally, that he's been working on that particular style of Chardonnay for so long, that's his benchmark, so that's what he continues to do. I'd love to see him make a chillingly austere Chablis-style Chardonnay---but I'm not sure that is where his heart and soul and instinct and skill is, so maybe it wouldn't be that profound. But maybe.

Guess I'm just a raging liberal---and not just politically and socially, but in all other aspects of life as well. I think it's a big wide wonderful world of wine out there, and I want to experience as much of it as I can...knowing I won't like some of it, but knowing someone will, and knowing that I will like most of it.

Hoke,
Can't disagree with anything you said, in fact, I agree. The chard was still one of the least enjoyable wines I put in my mouth this year but the year is still quite young. Chardonnay 18 mos in new oak just seems like a waste of good fruit.
Walt

'Pinot Syrahs' that are enjoying the vogue right now

That is an interesting moniker that I have not run into before. What do you mean by 'pinot syrah'?

Can't take credit for it, as I didn't coin it. It's actually been around for a while to categorize the (mostly US) versions of Pinot Noir that are unctuous, big, fat, and have exceptionally high alcohol.

Shows how great a good coined term can be, eh? Instantly understandable to wine geeks and very descriptive.

What's really great about it to me, word lover that I am, is that it actually includes the irony of the fact that there were rumours for years that many of the Burgundy Pinots had been adulterated, or 'beefed up' with Syrah from the Rhone Valley.

Of course folks have different tastes. By not drinking CA wines like Barberas, you keep the prices down.

Bon Appetibarnyard

What's really great about it to me, word lover that I am, is that it actually includes the irony of the fact that there were rumours for years that many of the Burgundy Pinots had been adulterated, or 'beefed up' with Syrah from the Rhone Valley. [/quote]
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Some people swore that there were some very ripe grapes from North Africa that made their way to Burgundy. Just a rumor, mind you.