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WTN: On the Vergers of something great

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WTN: On the Vergers of something great

by Jenise » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:00 pm

A long time ago I bought some Michel Niellon white burgs. The wines were flabby and overripe--03's, so yeah. I meant to toss them out but never did and recently put one in the outside fridge to chill for a quick taste before dumping. I could see through the light green glass that the contents had undergone some serious color-change.

Last night was the night:

2003 Michel Niellon 1er Cru Les Vergers
Tawny-orange ale color. Not light ale either, medium and rich. Interesting nose of crème brulee, honey and candied nuts. On the palate apricot, honey, toast and lemon peel. Tasted more like a liquid butterhorn pastry than chardonnay as we know it. Bobo's initial reaction "ew, oxidized." But I disagreed--it was heavily caramelized, but there was nothing nasty. It wasn't pruney or sherried. I coached him to set aside the usual white burgundian death sentence and be open-minded the way you are when someone pours you something deliberately different (though I know Niellon didn't intend this). The longer we stayed with it, the more fascinating it got and we ended up finishing and loving that bottle. A real e-ticket ride of a wine, but not for everybody.

It brought back two memories. In my early 20's I dropped in at Chateau Souverain in Sonoma. They poured an old chardonnay that had caramelized color and flavors. It was weird but I loved it and bought a few bottles to take home. My parents loved it and they ended up calling the winery and ordering like five cases. Years later while living in Alaska, we found some old bottles of Krug champagne vintage 1976 in an out of the way liquor store, dusty, forgotten and at their original price. Again, similar color and flavors--not what wine should be, but we loved it and so did everyone we poured them for.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: WTN: On the Vergers of something great

by David M. Bueker » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:54 pm

Hmm...premoxed white burgundy as intellectual experience. If this catches on it could end a lot of disappointments. ;)
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Re: WTN: On the Vergers of something great

by Jenise » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:37 pm

But this was nothing like the usual premox, if indeed it's premox. Btw, all four bottles turned this orange color within just a few years. Uniform, just like every bottle in those five cases of the caramelized Souverains were all those years ago. I hated sherry then (as a drink, but I used it a lot in cooking) so would have identified it immediately but detested it in a drinking wine.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: WTN: On the Vergers of something great

by David M. Bueker » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:55 pm

Premox doesn't always include Sherry tastes.
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Re: WTN: On the Vergers of something great

by Jenise » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:59 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Premox doesn't always include Sherry tastes.


I've experienced sherry, prunes, soap, and what amounts to almost no taste at all. All unpleasant. Any others?
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: WTN: On the Vergers of something great

by Victorwine » Sun May 01, 2016 2:36 pm

“Oxidation” (for that matter even “Reduction”) may or may not be a “fault”. (Only when the aromas or attributes become so excessive and overpowering would you consider it a “fault”. Technically if the wine is taken out of its intended class or style it could be considered a “fault”. For appreciation it might surprise you and taste like a very good Sherry-type wine or just plain "interesting".) In certain concentrations both “oxidative aromas” and “reductive aromas” could contribute to a wines complexity or just make a wine seem “interesting”. Both wine oxidation and reduction (actually you can’t have one without the other) produces “new” aromas. Oxidation of wine besides producing “new” aromas could also eliminate existing aromas especially those containing sulfur. “Good oxidation” also may contribute to texture and mouth feel. To make things even more complicated its how all these wine aromas “come out and play” with one another. Depending upon concentration, personal thresholds and how they play with other aromatic compounds, oxidative characteristics like straw, nutty, and apple-like could contribute positively to a wine experience. Now whether these oxidative aromas were actually produced by a chemical oxidation (exposure to oxygen) or by biological means is another story.
A Spanish winemaker once told me if you haven’t experienced a “mature” or “oxidized” wine, all you had was “fermented grape juice”.

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Re: WTN: On the Vergers of something great

by Jenise » Sun May 01, 2016 3:09 pm

Victor, thanks for that boost. Any thoughts on the effect of high sugars in this process? After posting yesterday, I thought of another possibly-related example of similarity--the brown Johannesberg Rieslings of California's Chateau St. Jean. Made as a dessert wine and very pale initially, they'll be the color of coffee ten or so years out. That, my own comparison of this wine to Madeira, and thinking about the hot vintage that was 03 of this wine initially, has me wondering what is typical for oxidation in wines of high sugar. Heated, sugar browns, so is it that process in slow-mo?
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Re: WTN: On the Vergers of something great

by Victorwine » Sun May 01, 2016 4:28 pm

The following NOMACORC Blog by Remy Charest might be of interest.


http://www.nomacorc.com/blog/2015/09/li ... s-of-wine/

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Re: WTN: On the Vergers of something great

by Dale Williams » Tue May 03, 2016 3:01 pm

I'm a big Niellon fan (especially the Vergers) but this doesn't sound too appealing to me. :)
Niellon has a moderately high PremOx rep.

I mostly avoided 2003 white Burg, though I've had a few good ones in last couple years.
I also didn't buy Vergers during this period (this must have been the first vintage back, it was replanted after '96 vintage).

Still have some '91 Vergers (all showed well) and '96 Vergers (about 50% PremOx rate)

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