Is $15 wine the new $8 wine?

I thought this was an interesting question posed by "The Wine Curmudgeon". IMO, the $15.00QPR that accompanied many a weekday meal, has become a thing of the past. What say you?

http://winecurmudgeon.com/is-15-wine-the-new-8-wine/


JB

[David M. Bueker]

I do not drink much $15 wine, but I have zero issue finding a good one if I want one.

We use $15 as our every day wine price cutoff. It's not as easy to find good bottles at that price as it used to be, but places like Costco and Total Wine still have some decent wines available for less than that. Guigal Cotes du Rhone comes in for around $12 at Costco.

The Wine Curmudgeon makes a good point, though. There's a lot of really awful dreck out there in the $12 - $15 range.

Oh, I agree that $15 is the everyday sweet spot, but as the Curmudgeon points out, there is a lot of wine that use to be(or should be) sold as $8 or less, that now bears that $15 price tag. I think that it's possible to find a decent $15 wine, but one has to kiss a lot of frogs, or have enough experience to discern the toads from the frogs, to get there. Moreover, those just starting out on the path to wine enlightenment, feel that $15 is a solid platform upon which to build appreciation and fine tune the palate,but they're not experiencing the same $15 quality most of us did back in the day.

Oh, I agree that $15 is the everyday sweet spot, but as the Curmudgeon points out, there is a lot of wine that use to be(or should be) sold as $8 or less, that now bears that $15 price tag. I think that it's possible to find a decent $15 wine, but one has to kiss a lot of frogs, or have enough experience to discern the toads from the frogs, to get there. Moreover, those just starting out on the path to wine enlightenment, feel that $15 is a solid platform upon which to build appreciation and fine tune the palate,but they're not experiencing the same $15 quality most of us did back in the day.

Yeah, I agree with that. We've had plenty of wines over the last few years that were around $15 that tasted like something we would have paid <$10 for (or even $5 for) in years past. Stuff with a reasonably serious-looking label that is thin and insipid. That's with reds - we buy relatively few whites and tend to be more choosy with them.

[David M. Bueker]

Robin started a thread on a very similar path several weeks ago.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55018

Being ITB it's much easier to find decent red wines at reasonable prices than white wines. But I'm sure that the geeks know that situation.

[David M. Bueker]

Perhaps dry, white wines. I can still find a number of lovely German Rieslings (and the occasional Scheurebe) for $12-$15.

Perhaps dry, white wines. I can still find a number of lovely German Rieslings (and the occasional Scheurebe) for $12-$15.

Agreed, but sadly German wines are still a hard sell in CA. I like them but that hardly dents our inventory.

It's true there's not much left at $8. I might keep a couple of bottles of Perrin La Vieille Ferme white and the Iche Les Heretiques red around for cooking, or find something on closeout, but under $10 is pretty slim pickings (I just paid $9 for some Trimbach PB).

But I think plenty to drink for $15. Without worrying about vintage, I'm usually pleased with dry whites like Collestefano Verdicchio or Pepiere /Landron/Luneau-Papin Muscadets, reds like Guion  Bourgueil (domaine or prestige), Lapierre Raisins Gaulois, or Chermette/Vissoux Traditionelle, bubblies like Castellroig, Gruet, or Sorelle Bronca. , Plenty of dry and offdry Riesling options too, as mentioned

My everyday wines used to be in the $8 to $12 range. Now they are in the $15 to $20 range, so I would say that $15 wine is the new $8 wine. That said, I have no trouble finding many very nice wines at that price point. In addition to many suggestions listed above I would add Argentine Malbecs, Many Italian reds from Tuscany, some Barberas, Southern Italian reds, loads of Italian whites, Spanish whites and reds, South African Chenins, Roses from almost anywhere, and many Austrian wines. You can get an excellent Gruner at that price. Just look around a little, and if you have a Costco or a Total Wine nearby it's really easy.

[Jenise]

In total agreement with the question (and virtually every one else who answered).

Speaking of deals: '12 Chateau Pasqaud (open a day before you plan to drink it), a very balanced, elegant little Bordeaux Superior at Grocery Outlet this week for $12. Drinks like $25+.

I have felt like the under $10s just aren't as satisfying as they used to be, but I assumed that's because my everyday tastes are becoming more expensive . . . . but I do feel that excellent under $10 wines have become noticeably harder to find.

[David M. Bueker]

The disappearance of lower priced bottles worth drinking makes perfect sense. Consider that even with our meager rate of inflation, $10 in 2000 is now about $14. Then consider that despite a plateau and perhaps even a recent drop, wine consumption is up quite a bit since 2000. Combine the two, and it is not at all shocking that $15 is about the floor for good wine.

[Jenise]

Ryan, the evolution of your palate has a lot to do with it, but it's also true that value just costs more. But as I told a friend who suggested that I would never buy a $10 wine back when $10 was the benchmark value point, my answer was "Oh yes I do. As an aficionado, though, I just try 20 times harder than you do to find that great $10 bottle."

Agree that the acceptable QPR level has moved higher and that $15 seems to be the point that people are willing to settle at.

Also agree that it has become much more difficult to find a sub-$10 wine that is worth drinking.

One would think---I would think, anyway---that decent white wines should be in ready supply more than reds, but that's not the case.

On the other hand, it does make finding the little treasures more fun, and perhaps more rewarding. The recent LAN Rioja Crianza 2011 seems a perfect example. It's widely available in chains such as Safeway and Fred Meyer at $9--10, with the Reserva and Gran Reserva often available as well; those folks tasting the Red Label should be stimulated to try the Blue Labels, which are at higher prices because of the required longer aging periods.

The 'outliers' are still in play---those areas that have not as yet hit the public/volume market and are still priced well to sell and present a fundamental flavor experience---the Cotes de Gascoyne, for instance. The Savoie (especially for whites). The Alto Adige. Austrian Gruner is still affordable, although even the Bergers have vaulted over th $10 barrier now, alas.

What concerns me more than the $15 price point is that what used to be available at $15 has largely become the $30 wine---with little to no reason for that to be the case. other than wiinemakers wanting to establish high perceived prices right out of the gate. I'm sorry: coming out with a first vintage from an unknown producer doesn't immediately allow you to put a $30+ price point on your wine. At least, not when the money comes from my wallet.

On the other hand, it does make finding the little treasures more fun, and perhaps more rewarding. The recent LAN Rioja Crianza 2011 seems a perfect example. It's widely available in chains such as Safeway and Fred Meyer at $9--10, with the Reserva and Gran Reserva often available as well; those folks tasting the Red Label should be stimulated to try the Blue Labels, which are at higher prices because of the required longer aging periods.

The Iberian peninsula is for me the last great hold out of the under $10 that can be both excellent and interesting. Portuguese reds perhaps even more so than Spanish reds these days.

One encouraging trend though: I think the quality of < $15 Bdx has actually gone up considerably over the last decade. I used to be wary of that price range, and it held me back from drinking Bdx more often, but now think they offer some of the best QPR out there, if Bdx is your thing.

One encouraging trend though: I think the quality of < $15 Bdx has actually gone up considerably over the last decade. I used to be wary of that price range, and it held me back from drinking Bdx more often, but now think they offer some of the best QPR out there, if Bdx is your thing.

I would most definitely agree with that, Ryan. Bordeaux 'petite chateaux' are considerably better than, say 15-20 years ago. Back then I would not touch an Entre-Deux-Mers red---the odds simply weren't in my favor---and now I have not only those but several more of the smaller, less prestigious sub-districts available.

The Iberian wines, yes, many are lovely....with a distressing but not unexpected trend towards the "international" market, i.e., spoofed up, fattened up, ripened up, and most of all, oaked up. Not that the Spanish were all that reticent about oak, ever, but you know what I mean. The best case I can think of it Mencia. For a brief shining moment that area was producing some absolutely lovely middle-weight reds; then the spoofification began, and now I can't recall the last time I had that kind of Mencia---they all seem to be blueberry-vanilla milkshakes now. And they have gone up in price.

Not to long ago marketing experts categorized a 750 ml bottle of wine costing over $15 a “Luxury wine”

Salute