Arizona Wine

So how are the wines from the Cochise area of Arizona these days. Canned from Agua Dulce after 5 years (in late August), I've come across a piece of promising land in terms of price and possible value. Thought of maybe establishing something there, since they seem to have both water and the desire for vineyard and winery development. Tom? Ryan? Have any wine from there lately, enough to provide a general concensus?

So how are the wines from the Cochise area of Arizona these days. Canned from Agua Dulce after 5 years (in late August), I've come across a piece of promising land in terms of price and possible value. Thought of maybe establishing something there, since they seem to have both water and the desire for vineyard and winery development. Tom? Ryan? Have any wine from there lately, enough to provide a general concensus?

Craig,
So sorry to hear about AguaDolce not working out. Certainly their loss.

Sorry I can't be much of a help. I've had a few Calaghan wines. Underwhelmed.
I've had more from Maynard Keenan's CaduceusCllrs in Jerome. Sort of a mixed bag. He buys some grapes from here
in NM. I've not tried more because they're a bit on the pricey side from my recollection.
So I'm not a good person to ask on the potential of AZ wines.
I've had more experience w/ CO wines because I judged on the Governor'sCup judging last Spring. They're making
so very good wines up there.
So....between AZ/NM/CO...I'd say that CO has the greater potential.

My feeling w.r.t. going into one of these pioneering areas, that somebody w/ strong winemaking/grapegrowing experience,
such as yourself, can have a real impact. Oftentimes, these wineries are started by rank amateurs who think it would be
nice to be in the winemaking business...w/o a whole lot of experience. Oftentimes, the wines reflect that.

Tom

Yeah, Tom, the AD experience was really a bummer. The only 3 wines I made released under my tenure won 30 medals between them, a pretty good record. They were so far behind in vintages, though, that it was a joke. I had still not been able to bottle all of the 2010 vintage, and the tasting room was still on 2009, in mid-2015. The 3 2010 vintage wines released were only because they were kosher, but I was not provided support in selling them. Water under the bridge, I'm afraid, and I wish them the best of luck.

When starting a winery, everything must pencil out, and too often, it is the land and vineyard establishment costs that do not. I found a piece of land with active wells and some other improvements, selling at a pittance. In my case, I also look for a Jewish community close enough by for my participation (in the form of living there and commuting to the vineyard/winery). Tucson is only about an hour away, and if I need to stay at the vineyard/winery, there's a house on the property. So there are a lot of reasons why this could be a great property for me, though if only crap is coming from AZ, I don't want to be making more. CO sounds really good, except Denver is the only real Jewish community, hours away from Grand Junction and the wine growing area.

I figure I made some pretty creditable wines from AD in the high desert of Los Angeles County, on the same order as the wines I was making in Sonoma County in terms of quality. I know that if the fruit is anywhere near decent, I can make a pretty good wine from it, though it may require some manipulation. I read some interplay here from previous years concerning some AZ wine, and was hoping to hear better things than I got from you so far this time.

Yeah, Tom, the AD experience was really a bummer. The only 3 wines I made released under my tenure won 30 medals between them, a pretty good record. They were so far behind in vintages, though, that it was a joke. I had still not been able to bottle all of the 2010 vintage, and the tasting room was still on 2009, in mid-2015. The 3 2010 vintage wines released were only because they were kosher, but I was not provided support in selling them. Water under the bridge, I'm afraid, and I wish them the best of luck.

When starting a winery, everything must pencil out, and too often, it is the land and vineyard establishment costs that do not. I found a piece of land with active wells and some other improvements, selling at a pittance. In my case, I also look for a Jewish community close enough by for my participation (in the form of living there and commuting to the vineyard/winery). Tucson is only about an hour away, and if I need to stay at the vineyard/winery, there's a house on the property. So there are a lot of reasons why this could be a great property for me, though if only crap is coming from AZ, I don't want to be making more. CO sounds really good, except Denver is the only real Jewish community, hours away from Grand Junction and the wine growing area.

I figure I made some pretty creditable wines from AD in the high desert of Los Angeles County, on the same order as the wines I was making in Sonoma County in terms of quality. I know that if the fruit is anywhere near decent, I can make a pretty good wine from it, though it may require some manipulation. I read some interplay here from previous years concerning some AZ wine, and was hoping to hear better things than I got from you so far this time.

Craig,
I would not say that wines coming from AZ are crap. Jeez...you can even find those kinds of wine from Calif w/o to much searching. I think the area has good potential and, with skillful winemaking, could make good to great wines. The ones I've
tried seemed to be marred by less-than-skillful winemaking. I think your background of growing at AD/high-desert, you'd be
able to bring some unique skills to the table there. It sounds like a good opportunity for you, Craig.
When starting a new vnyd in a new area, everyone wants to make Cabernet & Chard. That's one of the problems I
see in the CO wine industry. It makes no sense, in a new growing area, to try to swim w/ the big fish in a big pond. Seek out a unique niche. There are hundreds of grape varieties out there that can, potentially, make great wines there. But, admittedly,
it's a bit of a gamble. And marketing them can be problematic. But I am way more inclined to try a new CO Blaufrankisch than I
am just another CO Cabernet. So...very sage advice from a guy who's never had to make or sell a btl of wine in his life!!
Tom

For quality of wines from south of Tucson you should try Sand-Reckoner, Dos Cabezas, and Pillsbury.

Not a big fan of Caduceus, in general, although they get lots of play. Lots of uneven wines and flawed characteristics.

For quality of wines from south of Tucson you should try Sand-Reckoner, Dos Cabezas, and Pillsbury.

Not a big fan of Caduceus, in general, although they get lots of play. Lots of uneven wines and flawed characteristics.

Yup...pretty much my take, Bill. I've had two of the DosCabezas and liked them quite a bit.
Tom

My most recent AZ wine was a Cimarron Rojo del Sol, late last year I think. I've been a big believer in the potential of AZ wine for quite some time now.

To be honest, I haven't been all that impressed with the Dos Cabezas wines I've tried. Cimarron (Dick Erath's AZ venture) is very reliable, and one of the few to show a completely polished, not at all amateurish style. In fact the 2009 Rojo del Sol is the best AZ wine I've had (its a Tempranillo-based Spanish blend).

Sonoita Winery really impressed me the one time I visited the winery, but I haven't had any of their wines before or since. They were clearly a high quality operation though.

Southeast Arizona has quite a few wineries with a range of very good to what-is-this-crap. Pillsbury. Callaghan, Keeling-Schaefer and Flying Leap are all producing good wines. Page Springs Cellars, while located in Northern AZ has a vineyard (Colibri) in the northeast corner of the Chiricahua Mountains and produces very tasty wines from its grapes. Some of the others I've had include Sonoita, Keif-Joshua, Rancho Rossa and Lightning Ridge which were somewhat inconsistent.

It seems to me that the terroir in southern arizona is most conducive to Rhone grapes - Grenache in particular seems to pickup some consistent spice across vineyards in the region. Syrah and Mourvedre also do quite well.

Thanks all. The particular property I'm looking at, well over 400 acres of vineyard potential, would make me potentially the largest grower in AZ (assuming full vineyard development, of course, which need not be the case). It's so cheap compared to other regions (like almost anywhere in a current grapegrowing region in CA) that it just seems to be begging to be purchased. But being broke as I am, it is still a stretch, and may not represent the best value in my options. But on the other hand, it may. In any case, investors will be required, and will need to be identified. If there is potential for quality grapes in AZ, and in the Willcox area, chances are that potential will be found on this property.