Premier Cru (the wine store in SF) Update

[Jenise]

Well, my brother finally got over there yesterday and bailed out my Ponsots. He had only been in there once, a long time ago, and had balked when I asked him to do this for me and claimed it to be urgent. Now he understands: there was only one employee in the whole place, and the shelves are "only maybe 30 or so %" full. He compared it to the bustle of JJ Buckley a few miles away where he'd gone to pick up a box of wine I'd ordered for him--full of wine, customers and employees. Premier Cru doesn't look like it could last out the month.

It looks pretty grim. I was advising people to switch out PA for instock, but the instock keeps dropping. Now if you look at instock only down to 636 offerings, most of which is current release inexpensive stuff. 8 offerings of instock wine that are over $200, and most of them are single bottles (and all are NOT sharply priced). So hard to swap out if you have big orders outstanding. Their instock Bdx is mostly recent Sauternes, with a few half bottles of off vintage Canon or Nenin, and a few satellites.

There are multiple threads on other boards about people giving up, asking for refunds on bottles that are many years overdue, getting told check is being sent, but no check arrives. Plus the civil suits, tax arrears, etc. Meanwhile they retained a debt settlement company to fend off asset seizure from folks with writs.

Meanwhile, this weekend there were 3 separate blasts (2 40% sales, 1 "Special pricing") that were almost exclusively PA - and we're talking First Growths, Fourrier, Dujac, Mugnier, DRC, etc. 89 LMHB and 83 & 98 Cheval Blanc, etc are prices below what anyone could net selling at auction. Why would anyone sell to PC at those prices? If they did, why wouldn't PC just sell - they could get that wholesale in Europe and not have time and expense of importing.

It stinks to high heaven.

[Jenise]

Stinks indeed; I'm very lucky they still had my bottles. An interesting but very lesser observation compared to everything else, but Chris (not a geek who understands storage, but just a person who understands 'comfortable') actually noticed that the store was very warm, as in they're not even running the air conditioner.

[David M. Bueker]

Oh the comment about the temperature would throw the Berserkers folks into a whole new tizzy!

It looks pretty grim. I was advising people to switch out PA for instock, but the instock keeps dropping. Now if you look at instock only down to 636 offerings, most of which is current release inexpensive stuff. 8 offerings of instock wine that are over $200, and most of them are single bottles (and all are NOT sharply priced). So hard to swap out if you have big orders outstanding. Their instock Bdx is mostly recent Sauternes, with a few half bottles of off vintage Canon or Nenin, and a few satellites.

There are multiple threads on other boards about people giving up, asking for refunds on bottles that are many years overdue, getting told check is being sent, but no check arrives. Plus the civil suits, tax arrears, etc. Meanwhile they retained a debt settlement company to fend off asset seizure from folks with writs.

Meanwhile, this weekend there were 3 separate blasts (2 40% sales, 1 "Special pricing") that were almost exclusively PA - and we're talking First Growths, Fourrier, Dujac, Mugnier, DRC, etc. 89 LMHB and 83 & 98 Cheval Blanc, etc are prices below what anyone could net selling at auction. Why would anyone sell to PC at those prices? If they did, why wouldn't PC just sell - they could get that wholesale in Europe and not have time and expense of importing.

It stinks to high heaven.

Most Ponzi schemes have a lot of aromatics. That is my sense of what is going on at PC.
Tom

Yesterday 636 SKUS.
Today 574 (includes glassware, etc), 5 wines over $200, all single bottles (3 ports, 2 large formal NV Champagne)
Plenty of Kung Fu Girl Riesling though!

[Jenise]

Whew.

To be fair, their store never had many people in it, I've visited their old retail location in Emeryville a couple times and the Berkeley one maybe thrice. Rarely saw more than five people, and a couple times I was the only one. The temperature has always been cool, if not wine-cellar cold. The Bay Area is near record highs this week, so it's not completely out of the question that it would be warmer than average.

The declining stock and difficulty issuing refund checks is clearly a worry; what happens when the rest of the the people go to convert their old pre-orders and cupboard is bare?

Full-disclosure, I have $600 in pre-orders there, with about half from the recent Theise offer that was indicated to arrive in November.

[Jenise]

Walt, hope you get your wines. Don't place any more orders!

I'm glad I only have a single bottle of Leoville Poyferre owing from them.

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2015/10/29/ ... m-of-wine/

Some rehash, but the $288K bounced check is a doozy.. Hopefully the sale of building would help, but based on PC's cashflow history unlikely they paid cash, so mortgage (and owed backtaxes) would have to come out. But if they sealed deal for over $7M, still leaves a tidy chunk (original purchase was reported at $4.1M, why did I not invest in Berkeley realty?). Still, that would MAYBE cover the reported lawsuits.

Hope everyone gets their wine (or money). Walt's Theise wines might be most likely- for whatever reason PC seems to have a good supply of those (funny, if you remember TT's rants against Grey Market after the PC Christoffel deals). But I think anyone buying prearrival 2014 Bdx is crazy (or PA DRC, 100 pt Parker Bdx, etc). Does anyone really think they're putting down cash to secure those while bouncing huge checks,

JC, even for one bottle, might be worth looking at instock to see if you could trade out.

And yet stuff keeps arriving, like the 2011 G. Rinaldi that was gone in a flash (14 bottles)...Later this month supposedly will receive a container or two.

And JJB has a real store? I thought it was 'internet-only' operation.

And yet stuff keeps arriving, like the 2011 G. Rinaldi that was gone in a flash (14 bottles)...Later this month supposedly will receive a container or two.
.

They clearly are still attempting to get wine in. But sure looks like they are paying for it with current prearrival money. "Cash flow" usually means a lot of instock inventory. Where is it? Certainly (like in case of the big lot of Beaucastel and 2002 Comtes) suppliers are refusing to deliver for non-payment, for wines that were prepaid for by customers. The big stock of 2014 supposedly secured shouldn't cause them cash flow issues, typically only a portion is paid on contract signing.

Oh the comment about the temperature would throw the Berserkers folks into a whole new tizzy!

Thanks David, that comment gave me quite a chuckle. The Berserkers thread on this subject is quite something, even for that board.

The scariest part of it for me - thankfully I have never ordered from them - is that we haven;t heard a peep from any PC representative at all. Nada. You'd think they would say something about all the negative press they are getting? Even if it was total 'spin'.

[Jenise]

And yet stuff keeps arriving, like the 2011 G. Rinaldi that was gone in a flash (14 bottles)...Later this month supposedly will receive a container or two.

And JJB has a real store? I thought it was 'internet-only' operation.

I thought so too; I know it was originally. But maybe it's like Garagiste--effectively, an internet-only operation but they end up retailing oversupply at the front end. Or maybe it started out that way. To Chris, it looked like a real store.

Run, don't walk away from doing business with these people IMHO.

New story
http://www.contracostatimes.com/breakin ... iness-over

I noticed last night for first time in at least 6 months I didn't get a "fantastic" (in multiple senses) weekend PA offer (or 3).

PC's total in stock SKUs are less than 300. Of that, 3 BOTTLES (not SKUs) are over $100- 2 6L Silver Oaks for $650 and a low fill Ridge Rudy Cabernet for $199. The long promised Champagne container (1st quarter 2015, then spring, then Sept/Oct. then Nov "In port waiting loading") is now not coming till "next year."

If that wine really is in containers at port or their "warehouse in Beaune" rather than pay refunds and defend lawsuits, why don't they hire a French avocat to do an inventory and an affidavit that the (long paid for) wine is there- would satisfy people, pause some lawsuits, and get PAs rolling again. I don't see how any sane/rational person could really think PC bought all of that wine.

Every offer they send out of "prearrival" gems priced underauction or Bdx futures priced under negoce cost is just adding to the huge total of unsecured orders. There is friction in all of those transactions. Staff costs, utilities, taxes, cc charges eat up some, so even if Fox is trying to cover the old orders, it's increasing the total owed - just transferring who is owed the money. For the community in whole the best thing is that they shut their doors (or authorities shut them) as soon as possible.

New story
http://www.contracostatimes.com/breakin ... iness-over

I noticed last night for first time in at least 6 months I didn't get a "fantastic" (in multiple senses) weekend PA offer (or 3).

PC's total in stock SKUs are less than 300. Of that, 3 BOTTLES (not SKUs) are over $100- 2 6L Silver Oaks for $650 and a low fill Ridge Rudy Cabernet for $199. The long promised Champagne container (1st quarter 2015, then spring, then Sept/Oct. then Nov "In port waiting loading") is now not coming till "next year."

If that wine really is in containers at port or their "warehouse in Beaune" rather than pay refunds and defend lawsuits, why don't they hire a French avocat to do an inventory and an affidavit that the (long paid for) wine is there- would satisfy people, pause some lawsuits, and get PAs rolling again. I don't any sane person could really think PC bought all of that wine.

Every offer they send out of "prearrival" gems priced underauction or Bdx futures priced under negoce cost is just adding to the huge total of unsecured orders. There is friction in all of those transactions. Staff costs, utilities, taxes, cc charges eat up some, so even if Fox is trying to cover the old orders, it's increasing the total owed - just transferring who is owed the money. For the community in whole the best thing is that they shut their doors (or authorities shut them) as soon as possible.

Pretty much the same ole story that's been going on for over a yr now.
What as surprised me is that, if the scheme is as fradulent as claimed, some disgruntled employee hasn't come forward to acknowledge that.
When I was last in there last Summer....it did not look very healthy at all.
Tom

Wait, the building is mortgaged to the hilt? Wow. I am so torn, because Premier Cru, for so many years, delivered on its promises, eventually. The prices were always too good to be true, even ten years ago. And yet the bottles would show up. But they have obviously run into serious trouble. I have only $250 of older preorders and $350 of Theise riesling ordered 06 Oct of this year because it was specifically promised for November arrival, so I wouldn't be seriously hurt if they went under, but boy does it look like a bad situation.

That reminds me, it is no longer November, and yet only three bottles of the promised 12 have arrived. Time to give them a call (or, unfortunately, six or seven calls).

[Jenise]

Good luck getting your stuff, Walter. Sure looks bad. Kind of surprising that Fox hasn't thrown in the towel yet; the evidence suggests that any moment he will, or actually, has to. He has literally painted himself into a corner.

Good luck, Walt! I hate to give unsolicited advice (who am I kidding, this is a web forum- what else is it about!) but I'd strongly consider shifting at least the older orders to instock. No screaming bargains, but if you like Riesling I'd rather pay full retail for Kuenhoff, JJ Christoffel, or Kunstler than be holding on to older orders when crash happens (and I'm willing to place bet giving long odds it happens soon).
The Thiese bottles you should be able to get CC company to refund as long as you don't hold on a long time hoping, window is short enough. Maybe they'll come in- but Fox has to pay distributor.
Jenise, my personal opinion is that towels are not being thrown in because it doesn't mean bankruptcy but possibility (ok, near certainty) of criminal charges.

Ok, when you thought it couldn't get worse- I don't usually post stuff from other boards, but this was posted on WB today (by a different Dale):
Have 9 bottles of Billecart NV Rose' on pre-arrival (among others). Low and behold, I see 16 bottles in stock for sale @ $76. Call and ask (then demand) they fulfill my 2 yo pre-arrival order before selling. I was told these are not my bottles, but are new ones bought at a higher price to sell. They refused to fill my back order with these bottles. Only offer was to to cash out my bottles (@ $46) and re-buy at $76.

[Jenise]

Jenise, my personal opinion is that towels are not being thrown in because it doesn't mean bankruptcy but possibility (ok, near certainty) of criminal charges.

Understood. But towels being thrown, at least in this particular type of circumstance, include grabbing the last suitcase full of cash and disappearing because those criminal charges are looking like a drop-dead certainty.

Just called and was told that they are no longer doing conversions of pre-arrivals to in-stock. They would issue a refund check in 6-8 weeks if I were outside the 2 year pre-arrival window but as of now it looks like there are no options for people with pre-arrivals less than 2 years except to wait.