WoFW: Extreme Sorting in NapaVlly

An interesting article in the World of Fine Wine on extreme sorting in the NapaVlly:
WoFW:ExtremeSorting

The usual suspects, winemakers of high-end/expensive Cabs, are, of course, strongly in favor of extreme sorting, especially using optical sorting tables (anyone seen one of these in use?), to insure that only "perfect" berries get into the must. They can eliminate underripe/raisened/rotten berries and MOG. They assure us that this is the best way for their wine to express terroir. One wnry (Kapcsandy) uses a manual sorting, followed by an optical sorting table, followed by another manual sorting table. He (DennisMalbec) argues that this is necessary to give you "purity of your terroir" when you're operating at the "high-end" and that this is the antidote to the "international style" in wines.
Skeptics (AbeSchoerner/RandyDunn/RicForman) argue against the use of extreme sorting and that their wines, au contraire, have better expressions of terroir. Abe argues that expressing the vagaries of the vintage better represents terroir.

So I pose the following questions:
1. If you can insure that every berry going into your wine is "perfect" (same Brix/same TA/same phenolic content...that they're all identical and "perfect") does that wine better express terroir than a wine that is made just from grapes that that vnyd gives you that year?

2. Can a wine made w/ extreme sorting (i.e. a wine made only from "perfect grapes") ever show the complexity of a wine made from grapes that include some that are less than "perfect"?

3. Is it more important that a wine show terroir or complexity??

This is not a troll and I don't want any wishy-washy/mealy-mouthed answers!!!
Tom

With "extreme sorting," how the heck would you make a good "field blend?"
I love field blends, because they often really come out unique - a wine unto themselves, and different year by year.
I put "field blend" in quotes because I know that not all field blends are the real thing.

optical sorting tables (anyone seen one of these in use?)

Yes, in 2011. Amazing.



This is what I wrote on my blog at the time after a visit to Spier Winery in the Cape

In the winery I watched in amazement a new grape sorting machine (above) being put through it spaces. This high tech machine scans individual grapes passing through it on a conveyer belt at up to 30 km an hour If one of its lasers encounters something other than a perfect grape a puff of compressed air shoots the rejected item up where another burst of air jets it into a discard hopper.

The machine can be set to recognise different grades of grapes so it is possible to sort grapes destined for various bottlings. Spier hand sort grapes for their premium labels but there is not enough time to hand sort all the grapes for all their labels, but with the new machine they will be able to sort all the grapes.

Funnily enough, a decade or so previously on along plane flight I'd sat next to a chappie who worked for a company that made sorting machines. They were selling them to frozen and canned foods companies to ensure that consumers didn't get stones bugs etc in their peas, bean etc. I said it'd be useful for wineries but he wasn't aware of any usage in the wine trade.

Speaking at Spier to the engineers from the companies calibrating the new sorting machine they said that more than half the classed growth Bordeaux wineries and many top Burgundy ones have these machines. They are very expensive.

Spier make a range of wines from their premium labels from their own vineyards down to own-label wines for shippers and supermarkets from bought in grapes.

You can program the machine to accept just grapes whilerejecting all MOG, or down to grapes individually selected for size/appearance/colour.

The machine is very much faster and accurate than hand sorting, and I think many (all?) of us see hand-sorting as a sign of quality at a winery.

I don't agree with it affecting the reflection of terroir any more than hand-sorting does. What it rejects and selects is decided by the winemaker

Thanks, Peter. Exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for.
Tom

Bit more info..

The conveyor belt has evenly spaced grape sized depressions with four small plastic stick like uprights around it to guide material added into the depression. At the bottom of the depression is a small hole through which the compressed air will blow if the contents are rejected.

The belt, when at full speed, moves so fast its a blur, you cannot make out whats on the belt.

Comparing reject hopper and 'accepted' hopper it seemed 100% efficient, with twicgs, stalks, green and unripe grapes in teh discard, and whole ripe undanaged black grapes in the accepted.

It seems to me that if the grapes have had all of the terroir baked out of them by being left on the vine into hyper-maturity, no level of extreme sorting is going to restore terroir. IMO this is just an expensive gimmick.

-Paul W.

Bit more info..

The conveyor belt has evenly spaced grape sized depressions with four small plastic stick like uprights around it to guide material added into the depression. At the bottom of the depression is a small hole through which the compressed air will blow if the contents are rejected.

The belt, when at full speed, moves so fast its a blur, you cannot make out whats on the belt.

Comparing reject hopper and 'accepted' hopper it seemed 100% efficient, with twicgs, stalks, green and unripe grapes in teh discard, and whole ripe undanaged black grapes in the accepted.

Thanks again, Peter. Do you have any idea how the winemaker programs the machine to tell it how to identify those grapes that are "perfect"?? I would guess it must be based on color and there must be a range of colors that are acceptable as "perfect".
Can you program the sorter to select only grapes that will give a Parker 95 or above??
Tom

to do that kind of programming, Tom, wouldn't you need a Troll?

Some might find the following video in the link below interesting

http://www.dw.com/en/the-fully-automate ... a-17453086

Salute

It seems to me that if the grapes have had all of the terroir baked out of them by being left on the vine into hyper-maturity, no level of extreme sorting is going to restore terroir. IMO this is just an expensive gimmick.

-Paul W.

37 Brix and 15.8% cabernet is 37 Brix and 15.8% cabernet-it is Port!

Can you program the sorter to select only grapes that will give a Parker 95 or above??
Tom

Parker's mind and palate has been electronically scanned using "Quantum Woo" machines and is now available as an "Ap" on both Google and Apple ap stores.

Some might find the following video in the link below interesting

http://www.dw.com/en/the-fully-automate ... a-17453086

Salute

Very interesting video and very impressive technology.

I am still wondering about Tom's question regarding complexity, though. Do you lose a bit of that if you are absolutely perfect in picking out only the "best" grapes?

Complexity itself is a “loaded” word when it comes to wine. Everyone has their own interpretation or definition. For me wine complexity means the wine is much more than singular dimensional, every sip seems to offer something different or just interesting. In general wines that are mass produced (industrially produced) lack complexity and smaller lots or artesian wines possess somewhat “greater” complexity. There are several things that may contribute to a wines complexity and this includes terroir, viticultural and vinification techniques. Besides these (and probable some others) bulk and bottle aging itself could contribute to complexity. (Hand sorting or automated sorting the grapes is just a winemaking techniques (which could itself actually contribute to complexity), yes maybe the goal of the winemaker is to “steer” the wine in a “desired” direction, but there are other “sources” which could possibly contribute to a wine’s complexity.

Salute

Complexity itself is a “loaded” word when it comes to wine. Everyone has their own interpretation or definition. For me wine complexity means the wine is much more than singular dimensional, every sip seems to offer something different or just interesting. In general wines that are mass produced (industrially produced) lack complexity and smaller lots or artesian wines possess somewhat “greater” complexity. There are several things that may contribute to a wines complexity and this includes terroir, viticultural and vinification techniques. Besides these (and probable some others) bulk and bottle aging itself could contribute to complexity. (Hand sorting or automated sorting the grapes is just a winemaking techniques (which could itself actually contribute to complexity), yes maybe the goal of the winemaker is to “steer” the wine in a “desired” direction, but there are other “sources” which could possibly contribute to a wine’s complexity.
Salute

Au contraire, Victor. "Complexity" is easy to define, just like "balance" in a wine. "Complexity" in wine is...uhhh....mmmmm...
errrrrr...... Hmmmmm...maybe it's not so easy to define. I think a group of winemakers should start the
IPoC (In Pursuit of Complexity) movement. Explain to people what is complex in their wines. Get all the bloggers in a tizzy debating if "complexity" is something real or just a marketing scam. Take their show on the road and pour their wines so people will finally/truly understand "complexity". It's all so obvious!!!
"Complexity" and "balance" are both sorta nebulous terms that defy a precise definition. It's like pornography...something we can recognize buut not easily define. I use "complexity" all the time in my TN's, but would be hard pressed to defend my usage. Your definition is probably as good as any, Victor.
Tom

Good point, Victor. I can buy the idea that imperfectly sorted grapes make for only one element of many when it comes to developing complexity in a wine.

I’ll go one step further it doesn’t really matter if the grapes are “imperfectly sorted” or sorted (manually or automated) to produce a “desirable style” of wine this is just one “source ‘ of many that could possible contributes to “complexity’.

Salute