Finding and Discovering Wineries

Hi everyone,

I've found this reoccurring problem where if I want to find a winery in Napa or Sonoma it's pretty difficult for me to go online and search for great wineries. I either resort to Yelp or ask friends for recommendations. I'm curious if I could ask people in this discussion forum some questions that will help me build a site for making wineries easily discoverable when planning such trips.

I've started a landing page at http://www.hellowinery.com feel free to sign up on the mailing list for updates.

If you are interested please respond to this post by replying with

1) How you go about finding wineries in whatever region you're at

2) What internet websites you use to go about finding wineries

3) What can be improved by this experience.

I want to build a website for all the wine lovers, including me, out there!

Thanks,

Gary

I wish you well but registering for a wine forum such as this one will be a big plus for anyone wanting to visit a wine production region. There are a lot of folks who will point you in the right direction be it Napa, Finger lakes, Sicily, Rhone Valley etc.

Thanks Bob,

It seems like Wine Tasting generally is pretty hard to actually get through unless word of mouth. I knew it was for me. Friends of mine generally don't have the same taste as me so finding the right ones that are worth my time can be time intensive and even expensive.

Does anyone else have feedback around this?

I don't know about up to date books on California but, for many of the world's wine regions, there are excellent books in English which are very good guides to which wineries are worth visiting. For France, there are also annual guides in French, such as the RVF's Les Meilleurs Vins de France, Bettane's & Desseauve's Le Grand Guide and Guide Hachette and, for Italy, there are several guides in Italian with Gambero Rosso having an English edition. Germany, Spain, Portugal and Austria also have their guides. Then there are multiple bloggers like Jim's Loire, etc. Some experience is needed on how to calibrate authors' and bloggers' palates against one's own.

PS: The main problem about wine books is that they get quickly out of date with no information about vintages post publication as well as inadequate or no mention of recently up and coming wineries and wineries now on the way down. This is where annual guides score though they lack the elegant presentation and pretty pictures of the best wine books. However, some bloggers have good pictures on their sites.

Many appellations have web sites that list wineries that are members of an organization associated with a promotional group. These list the wineries, locations, how to contact them and links to individual wineries' websites, where one could find what wines are produced. The quality of the wines produced would require further searching for tasting notes, reviews and perhaps even competition results. For instance, here is a link to the website in my area: http://niagarawinetrail.org/.

[David M. Bueker]

There is so much info out there on the web regarding wineries and wine regions that I am really not sure what problem you're trying to solve.

There is so much info out there on the web regarding wineries and wine regions that I am really not sure what problem you're trying to solve.

I guess that Gary's problem is sorting out the wheat from the chaff. Are there no recent guides or bloggers helping people to do that for California, like there are in Europe? When I was there 20 years ago, I bought a book by James Laube but quickly found that I didn't share his palate preferences .

[David M. Bueker]

Wheat versus chaff is always a matter of opinion. A simple example came up at last night's blind tasting group. I mentioned one of my very favorite California wineries (Wind Gap), which I would heartily endorse to anyone, only to have another taster criticize the wines as "completely uninteresting."

Creating yet another website for finding wineries just adds more noise, not more information.

One thing I would recommend is to contact someone from this board and ask for the information you want. For example if you were going to the Finger Lakes region in New York contact Howie who posted above.

There is so much info out there on the web regarding wineries and wine regions that I am really not sure what problem you're trying to solve.

I guess that Gary's problem is sorting out the wheat from the chaff. Are there no recent guides or bloggers helping people to do that for California, like there are in Europe? When I was there 20 years ago, I bought a book by James Laube but quickly found that I didn't share his palate preferences .

Hey Tim and David (and everyone else for replying - thanks so much!)

You're pretty close about sorting out the wheat from the chaff. But really, on a whim, I sorta don't go to wineries based on blogs or books. I don't read them. I'm thinking of trip planning on map. Since I live in Oakland, California, my access to Napa and Sonoma is fairly simple. But before I go, I say to myself, "Where do I go and how would I get there?" So here's my process

1) Yelp (read recommendations)
2) Google the winery
3) Get the winery address
4) repeat steps 1-3
5) After about 4 wineries I'll then figure out the best optimal route from my location to then each winery

Granted - I could totally bypass this flip a coin, go to one winery, and ask for recommendations at the winery. But maybe I don't want to?

If this thread and discussion board doesn't mind, I'd love continue to build what I have in mind and and iteratively show you guys.

Anyone have anymore thoughts on my process and if it's similar?

Gary

[Jenise]

Thanks Bob,

It seems like Wine Tasting generally is pretty hard to actually get through unless word of mouth. I knew it was for me. Friends of mine generally don't have the same taste as me so finding the right ones that are worth my time can be time intensive and even expensive.

Does anyone else have feedback around this?

Gary, yes word of mouth is important. That's what this website in fact does--most of us here have similar tastes in wine, that's why we're here and that's why we'd ask here before we visit new areas. But it's also true that in general the average client of this site is someone who knows way, way, way above average about wine (including the wineries they don't love). Travelling to any new region we're likely to already know of one or more good wineries in any region we visit, and would be able to use that visit as a jumping-off point to glean recommendations for others producing wine at the same level in that area.

I guess what I'm saying is that the "right ones", as you put it, is very personal. You kind of need a guru/expert/friend-with-a-similar-palate to align yourself with to figure out what reccos would work out for you. A long time ago, I did that by joining a site similar to this and identifying palates who seem calibrated with mine, then following their discussions. If they loved a wine, I went and bought it. Whether or not I ended up agreeing with them, I learned something. But I kissed far, far more princes that way than I did frogs.

The problem with trusting a site like Yelp is that the people who write those reviews neither share your (or my) palate nor have the ability to express their wine preferences in terms we'd find relatable. That's really the problem you face in trying to do what I think you want to do. For example, someone's else "these wines are great!" would be my "Euw ick" because they love strong vanilla notes and riper, early-drinking wines where I don't. How do you distinguish those differences in a data base meant for all?

[David M. Bueker]

Not to mention that Yelp is the best place on the Internet for angry, revenge reviews. "That winery sucks! They wouldn't pour us a full glass of the reserve wines!"

... So here's my process

1) Yelp (read recommendations)
2) Google the winery
3) Get the winery address
4) repeat steps 1-3
5) After about 4 wineries I'll then figure out the best optimal route from my location to then each winery[ ...

Gary:

Based on your list above, it seems you are not trying to make winery recommendations; instead it appers that you want to make winery touring route recommendations to save time.

Just about every wine region has within it either a chamber of commerce, a tourism office, or an organization of wineries, all of which provide touring guides.

If I misread what you are trying to do, and you in fact want to develop a tour guide of the best or the best recommendations, I agree with others that is a futile endeavor. Any recommendation, good or bad, will meet with its opposite recommendation--people simply have their own aesthetic sensibilities, thinking people, that is.

Thanks Bob,

It seems like Wine Tasting generally is pretty hard to actually get through unless word of mouth. I knew it was for me. Friends of mine generally don't have the same taste as me so finding the right ones that are worth my time can be time intensive and even expensive.

Does anyone else have feedback around this?

Gary, yes word of mouth is important. That's what this website in fact does--most of us here have similar tastes in wine, that's why we're here and that's why we'd ask here before we visit new areas. But it's also true that in general the average client of this site is someone who knows way, way, way above average about wine (including the wineries they don't love). Travelling to any new region we're likely to already know of one or more good wineries in any region we visit, and would be able to use that visit as a jumping-off point to glean recommendations for others producing wine at the same level in that area.

I guess what I'm saying is that the "right ones", as you put it, is very personal. You kind of need a guru/expert/friend-with-a-similar-palate to align yourself with to figure out what reccos would work out for you. A long time ago, I did that by joining a site similar to this and identifying palates who seem calibrated with mine, then following their discussions. If they loved a wine, I went and bought it. Whether or not I ended up agreeing with them, I learned something. But I kissed far, far more princes that way than I did frogs.

The problem with trusting a site like Yelp is that the people who write those reviews neither share your (or my) palate nor have the ability to express their wine preferences in terms we'd find relatable. That's really the problem you face in trying to do what I think you want to do. For example, someone's else "these wines are great!" would be my "Euw ick" because they love strong vanilla notes and riper, early-drinking wines where I don't. How do you distinguish those differences in a data base meant for all?

Well put Jenise, thanks for your feedback! Super helpful!

You are correct about Yelp but that's my point exactly is there's gotta be something better and if not, how can we make it better.

You're totally right about going to one winery to visit and then gleaning off that one visit for other recommendations. It's often the way I've done it if I don't want to research.

Really I'm not trying to find the "Best of the Best." I totally get that it's subjective. For example, I'm in favor in Enkidu wines for their Pinot. For the best Barbera - go to Unti in Healdsburg. You might disagree. But really yah know what, at least you know someone likes it and it's maybe worth a shot as you mentioned. But ONE PART of the web app would definitely have a way to make their suggestions known. Sorta similar to this for beers => https://untappd.com/user/Vinspee

It'd be awesome if we could have like "Social Wine Ambassadors" for the site as well. It's not necessary to have Somm status but some way to identify yourself as a a person who has been around the block a couple of times.

Jenise, thanks for your feedback. It was well constructed and really well thoughtout. Hopefully I can continue to reach out to as I continue to build.

... So here's my process

1) Yelp (read recommendations)
2) Google the winery
3) Get the winery address
4) repeat steps 1-3
5) After about 4 wineries I'll then figure out the best optimal route from my location to then each winery[ ...

Gary:

Based on your list above, it seems you are not trying to make winery recommendations; instead it appears that you want to make winery touring route recommendations to save time.

Just about every wine region has within it either a chamber of commerce, a tourism office, or an organization of wineries, all of which provide touring guides.

If I misread what you are trying to do, and you in fact want to develop a tour guide of the best or the best recommendations, I agree with others that is a futile endeavor. Any recommendation, good or bad, will meet with its opposite recommendation--people simply have their own aesthetic sensibilities, thinking people, that is.

Hey Thomas! Thanks for your feedback.

You're right, wine touring recommendations to save time is one aspect of this. How many times have we written down our list of wineries and when we go to the first winery, we have to backtrack to go to our second one, then we have to go to forward or back again? Additionally - given recommendations on the spot makes it even worse - unless you totally don't mind backtracking or going forward often. Sometimes my trips in Sonoma and Healdsburg with friends are like this if the trip isn't planned right.

So while I think having some social aspect of this on the site like this is helpful https://untappd.com/user/Vinspee, I think a route/map optimizer is something of value for people as well. Where I might be going with this is www.hipcamp.com but for wineries.

Hey Thomas! Thanks for your feedback.

You're right, wine touring recommendations to save time is one aspect of this. How many times have we written down our list of wineries and when we go to the first winery, we have to backtrack to go to our second one, then we have to go to forward or back again? Additionally - given recommendations on the spot makes it even worse - unless you totally don't mind backtracking or going forward often. Sometimes my trips in Sonoma and Healdsburg with friends are like this if the trip isn't planned right.

So while I think having some social aspect of this on the site like this is helpful https://untappd.com/user/Vinspee, I think a route/map optimizer is something of value for people as well. Where I might be going with this is http://www.hipcamp.com but for wineries.

Gary: Have you seen these sites?

http://www.visitnapavalley.com/wineries ... valley.htm

http://www.sonoma.com

http://www.pasowine.com/wineries/

http://www.fingerlakeswinecountry.com/s ... eries.aspx

There are others.

Hey Thomas! Thanks for your feedback.

You're right, wine touring recommendations to save time is one aspect of this. How many times have we written down our list of wineries and when we go to the first winery, we have to backtrack to go to our second one, then we have to go to forward or back again? Additionally - given recommendations on the spot makes it even worse - unless you totally don't mind backtracking or going forward often. Sometimes my trips in Sonoma and Healdsburg with friends are like this if the trip isn't planned right.

So while I think having some social aspect of this on the site like this is helpful https://untappd.com/user/Vinspee, I think a route/map optimizer is something of value for people as well. Where I might be going with this is http://www.hipcamp.com but for wineries.

Gary: Have you seen these sites?

http://www.visitnapavalley.com/wineries ... valley.htm

http://www.sonoma.com

http://www.pasowine.com/wineries/

http://www.fingerlakeswinecountry.com/s ... eries.aspx

There are others.

I have...a bit clunky for each sites in my in my opinion - but it might work for others.

Gary:

My point is that there are specific sites for specific regions. It would be difficult to create a site that covers all wine regions. In fact, it would be monumental just keeping up with the changes. But, if you have a better mousetrap have had it.

Gary:

My point is that there are specific sites for specific regions. It would be difficult to create a site that covers all wine regions. In fact, it would be monumental just keeping up with the changes. But, if you have a better mousetrap have had it.

Hey Thomas, yep that's the challenge for sure . It's been awesome having your feedback and thoughts and I really do appreciate it. Definitely some technical challenges, but nothing that's impossible. With you and other's continued feedback I'd definitely love to share more down the line!

Cheers!