Terroir in Whites vs Reds????

I'm not one much to worship at the altar of terroir. I am, of course, not able to distinguish a Richebourg from a LaTache blind, nor a LaSerra from a Monforte blind. I rely on Monktown attourneys for that sort of perspicacity when it comes to terroir. Heck, I couldn't even tell MtEden Cab from MonteBello Cab blind.

But I do have some sort of sense of terroir in a gross sense. I can often identify the terroir of Lodi or SantaLuciaHighlands or ShenandoahVlly or UkiahVlly or RRV or far SonomaCoast. But probably not blind. I seriously doubt I can identify terroir down to the granularity of a vnyd by vnyd level. Given a Hudson & a LasMadres Syrah, I doubt very much I could identify which one was which blind. I just can't measure up to the big guys who can do that.

But I was thinking the other day (well...maybe just an hour ago) that I don't recall there being any white wines that I could identify any of the above-mentioned terroirs in. I can often pick up some of the Lodi terroir in a Calif Zin or Cab. But I have never picked up anything that I would call the Lodi terroir in a Calif Chard. Is it just me...or are there people who can do that??

So...I'm going to state, ex cathedra, that red wines display terroir much more than white wines.

So...for all you experts on terroir...right or wrong?? Not a troll....just a sincere question that inquiring minds would like to know. If you agree w/ that statement, any idea why that would be so??

Tom

Interesting question but I'm not sure why that would be the case?

I haven't thought about it a lot, but if we're generalizing it always seemed to make sense that some grape varieties were more open to showing terroir than others (pinot noir and riesling being the classic examples, one red one white), but I'm not sure about the reasons for that either. Thin skins? Lack of highly-pungent grape-specific aroma (e.g. gewurz)?

Aaagh, terroir!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_the_ ... he_pigeons.

I really look forward to the responses here .

Seriously though, I think white wines can show just as many terroir infuences as the reds do. Areas such as Southern France comes to mind as well as the Mosel, Rheingau and Nahe. I think Rahsaan makes a fair point whereas I feel that soil and climate conditions play an added important role.

I'm far from being able to identify a terroir blind but can notice the differences between the wines of a same producer in the same year from the different terroirs in his/her portfolio when tasting them side by side. That applies also to Loire Chenin and to Chardonnay made by Burgundian producers but it could be that in warmer climates like California's the varietal character is more dominant. Also larger scale and more industrial production methods anywhere tend to blunt differences of any kind in favour of a taste profile dictated by marketing departments.

Well known and highly talented Burgundian producer, Jean-Marie Guffens, le belge fou, in a recent RVF interview threw the cat amongst the pigeons by, as it were, asserting that terroir is bullshit citing the high score of his Mâcon vineyards in a line-up of much more prestigious sites. I think that there was some tongue in cheek here but, if his point is that regions like the Mâconnais contain "undiscovered" terroirs which rival those of the best in the Côte d'Or, that is certainly true. He also asserted that organic and biodynamic were amongst the causes of premox, but that is another story.

I'm far from being able to identify a terroir blind but can notice the differences between the wines of a same producer in the same year from the different terroirs in his/her portfolio when tasting them side by side. That applies also to Loire Chenin and to Chardonnay made by Burgundian producers but it could be that in warmer climates like California's the varietal character is more dominant. Also larger scale and more industrial production methods anywhere tend to blunt differences of any kind in favour of a taste profile dictated by marketing departments. .

Yup, Tim........that's about as good as I get as well. When I taste a bunch of Siduri Pinots side-by-side, it's not too difficult
to tell the SonomaCoast vs the SantaLuciaHighlands vs the WillimatteVlly vs the SantaRitaHills vs the RRV. Given those five blind, I think maybe I could do it. But knowing the vnyds Adam uses, I doubt I could identify each on a vnyd-by-vnyd basis.
I'm in awe (and a bit skeptical) of someone who can pick up a glass of RedBurg and pronounce.."Ahhhh...LeRichebourg".
But there are people who claim that skill.
Tom

[David M. Bueker]

There are in fact people who can pick out Richebourg in a blind line up. They are the folks who have been fortunate enough to drink Richebourg far more often than us mere mortals who only occasionally get to drink such rarefied wines. I have had exactly one bottle of Richebourg in my life.

That being said, I can pick out Erdener Treppchen, Piesporter Goldtropfchen and Niederhauser Hermannshohle more often than not. I have had many chances to drink/study those wines, and learned the markers that make them what they are. It's not a parlor trick. It's experience with the specific vineyards.

Terroir is real in reds and whites, as long as the grapes are grown with care, harvested before they become a caricature of ripeness (I do not believe in the terroir of botrytis wines by the way), and then turned into wine with minimal or no makeup. Too much ripeness or too much oak destroy terroir imprints in my experience.

That being said, I can pick out Erdener Treppchen, Piesporter Goldtropfchen and Niederhauser Hermannshohle more often than not. I have had many chances to drink/study those wines, and learned the markers that make them what they are. It's not a parlor trick. It's experience with the specific vineyards.

Terroir is real in reds and whites, as long as the grapes are grown with care, harvested before they become a caricature of ripeness (I do not believe in the terroir of botrytis wines by the way), and then turned into wine with minimal or no makeup. Too much ripeness or too much oak destroy terroir imprints in my experience.

Yup, David....I think botrytis probably destroys any expression of terroir...at least for us mere mortals. But, perhaps, a German winemaker who has made BA/TBA's over many yrs from different vnyds may be able to pick out the respective terroir. But, for me, a BA from Mosel or Rheingau or Rheinhessen just tastes like heavily botrytis Riesling.
Tom

[David M. Bueker]

I am sure Willi Schaefer or Hans Gunter Schwarz can differentiate terroir in BA/TBA. But as you say-not us, unless without some real luck.