Premox in red wine, particularly Bordeaux?

I can't recall this subject having been aired here. I became aware of this possibility in about February when I read Denis Dubourdieu's article in the RVF but, as I was in the throes of a move at the time, I did not post about it. I have been reminded of it by Jane Anson's recent article on the Decanter site to which this is a link http://www.decanter.com/people-and-plac ... o-red-wine .

I have to say that I am not greatly surprised if it turns out that some of the Parkerised/Rollandised fruit and oak bombs coming out of Bordeaux and elsewhere are not age-worthy.

[David M. Bueker]

I think your post is confusing two issues. Premox happens so quickly that it's not any type of referendum on Parker/Rolland era wines. Maybe it's a referendum on the use of sulfur, but that cuts across the natural wine movement as well. Then there's the cork part of the issue.

As to whether there is premox in reds, I sure hope not, and I have yet to experience it.

On the subject of Parker darling Bordeaux, a few days ago I had a small glass (3 oz) of 2000 Hosanna (RP 96 pts), and it was utterly delicious, and not yet mature, much less in danger of decline. It was also clearly Bordeaux, and not in any way a caricature.

David, your sample of one hardly discredits Dubourdieu's careful research and Anson's balanced article.

I don't understand your point about referenda.

[David M. Bueker]

No it doesn't, but again I think we're talking two distinct issues. Premox and the ageworthiness of so-called "Parker-ized" wines are IMO two different things. Plenty of wines that are not considered to be Parker darlings/Rolland style have been affected by premox.

And let's not forget that Dubourdieu has some skin in the game. He is also a consultant, and has a major interest in getting people to follow his advice, rather than the advice of Rolland. I'm also dubious of drawing too many conclusions from tastings of the 2003 vintage (referenced in the Decanter article), which has its own issues outside of any influence of critics/consultants. That is brought up in the article, and several times the subject turns to warm vintages which are not due to anything other than the weather!

And as for the Hosanna comments, I wasn't trying to disprove anything, just mentioning the latest (and there have been plenty of others) modern style wine that is aging very well in line with expectations for the grape/region.

Even with '96 white Burgs, I find it a hard job deciding whether the bottles I was finishing off were suffering from "prem-ox" or just ordinary "ox". Only the fact that percentage of "ox-ed" bottles was so high in an otherwise remarkably fresh tasting vintage made me conclude that in most cases something abnormal was at work.

With right bank grand cru+ red Bordeaux from "good" vintages, it would IMO be abnormal and something to worry about if a wine started showing signs of fatigue in or before the 10-15 years age range. We are getting there with châteaux like Pavie and Angelus from the late 90s/early 00s and I would like to know how they are showing. I agree that 2003 is a special case but I think it is disappointing, if true, that more normally warm years like 2009 are producing suspiciously evolved wines. Warm vintages of the past, such as 1929, 1945, 1947, 1949, 1959, 1961 and 1982 produced fine agers to the 20-30+ year range, although accidents due to faulty wine-making and lack of air conditioning in the chais were far more common than now.

Yes, one has to aim off for their commercial interest when reading both Dubourdieu and Rolland. However Dubourdieu is undertaking apparently serious research at the Oenology Faculty in Bordeaux (here is a sample http://www.vignevin-sudouest.com/public ... ancais.pdf ) and his own words in the RVF article do not seem to me to overstate the case which he regards as not yet fully proven. I think that his is a timely warning which happens to chime in with my own prejudices .

[David M. Bueker]

Well as for 2001, I am actually drinking quite a few wines from that vintage. I've posted on a number, and found them open, but in no way advanced. I actually had the 2001 Pavie a couple of years ago. I did not care for it, but not due to any evolved character. I just do not care for the style of the wine. Same goes for 2001 Pape Clement - not aged, just not a style of wine I care to drink. Wines such as 2001 Fombrauge (St. Em) or 2001 Clos Les Lunelles (Cotes de Castillon) are certainly not aging well, but they were never high class wines to begin with. I have a rather large number of 2001 Troplong Mondot, and now you've got me itching to try one. Trouble is I will need a backhoe to uncover them. The 1998 TM is holding quite nicely.

I'm with David in this discussion, it still seems like you're confusing two different issues. Our store has been inundated with many pre mox white Burgs but not a bottle of anything red has been returned for that reason that I'm aware of. I've dumped more white burgs from the 90s down the drain than I care to remember.

The difference between an “age worthy wine” and a “non age worthy wine” is that the “age worthy wine” might benefit from cellaring and be transformed into something “special” (something different anyway) and a “non age worthy wine” will not benefit from cellaring. If a “non age worthy wine” (once opened) shows any “ill effects “ of oxidation throughout the course of a meal or a couple of days I guess we can assume it suffered from “premox”. If an “age worthy wine” shows any “ill effects” of oxidation prior to its “expected peak time” I assume we can conclude it suffered from “premox”. Now as mentioned by David the reasons why the wine suffered from “premox” is a totally different story.

Salute

[David M. Bueker]

Reading the article for a second time at lunch today, I was struck by the focus on acidity. It makes intuitive sense that proper acidity levels might help prevent premox, but then I consider the baffling case of prematurely oxidized Trimbach. Even higher acid vintages have shown worrisome levels of premature oxidation. Same for Huet.

I really do not think anyone really knows why premox is happening.