Another internet wine seller

There has been several posts about Trader Joe's (TJ's) so I hope this reference is ok too. For a while now (few months). I have been ordering wines from an internet seller called WTSO (Wine til sold out) Haven't had a clunker yet, but who knows. I have had a couple bell ringers so it off sets. I got a Spanish (Rioja) called Bodegas Olarra Anares Rioja Reserva 2006. This one reminded me a lot of Spanish wines I drank while in Seville in the late 60's to early 70s. IOW old time tinto!

Robin et al, I am not invested in this company just a satisfied customer, but if this post is a little too commercial please pull it. Thanks.

Bob, There have been other people on the board who have purchased wines from WTSO and their comments have been pretty positive as I recall. I went in with a friend on some Champagne that they advertised and we were satisfied with what we bought, obviously a closeout. From what I've observed is that some of their offerings are good deals others not so much. The important thing is to know what you're buying and what it's regular commercial value should be in normal circumstances. In other words you should cherry pick based on price awarness..

The one complaint I've read here is that they sometimes have wines that are loosely connected to famous names that their in house reviewer always scores 90-95 points that are often not so great and/or over priced. Someone else can surely give more details on this.

[Jenise]

Lou's right, Bob. WTSO does have some great buys and I've availed myself of a few. But they're also pretty sneaky, selling formerly good producers like Havens and Cosentino as if they're still the original winery but which are now just bulk plonk. Too, some of the specific wines they sell are just made-up names or cuvees--thus, the original price they quote is entirely bogus because the wine, as such, never existed in the retail marketplace.

Btw, it's never "too commercial" to talk about or recommend retailers.

Yes, pretty much ignore the Jonathan Newman reviews. Hack!
As Jenise said, lots of "made up" labels and fanciful original pricing.
Also be aware of some wines that are likely quite tired.
That said, while I no longer subscribe, in past I got some good deals.
If you search WTSO there was a long thread here couple months ago

All the advice above is 100% dead on! I haven't had a real clunker from them, but I've had some pretty mundane wines. The top (in my book) wine was/is the Bodegas Olarra Anares Rioja Reserva 2006. This is an old type of wine not one of the juice bombs that so many Spanish wine has become. I notice it is back on the feature wine this AM. I liked it well enough to order a case of it.

[Jenise]

Bob, just carefully research every bottle before you buy to make sure it's real wine (the fakes are far more likely with domestic juice than imported, I'm sure.)

As Jenise says, lots of "fake" wineries there. It seemed to me a few years ago they offered more legitimate closeouts of more exciting wines. I just looked at their twitter feed *(https://twitter.com/WTSO) and the number of wineries offered in last month that I recognized was a small minority. Sure, there's lots of wineries in the world, but in a good retail shop I at least recognize most names.

And the percentage off figures are a joke. On the made up wineries that can of course be any figure. Someone did a study a few years ago comparing the wines that were on WTSO that had been reviewed on WS (even then a minority, now even more so) and found significant inflation in WTSO's claim for original pricing (and I've always found WS pricing to be full MSRP, well above normal retail).

Just found this listing of last September's marathon.
http://talk-a-vino.com/tag/wtso-wines/
Lots of names I don't recognize. I see Bob's Rioja listed at 12.99 vs $22 as "original price" But WS Pro shows quite a few stores with this, prices ranging from $13-15, with one $20 outlier. Of course, Bob got free shipping, so that helps, but it's nowhere the 41% discount claimed.

As noted, you can find good deals, and most importantly might find things you like. But don't trust the email offerings re pricing (or reality of winery)

It is important to wait about 4-6 weeks after receiving a shipment of their wines before opening a bottle. I know this sounds strange but believe me, these wine need a little time to settle down. It would be even better to wait 2 months. The WTSO staff is really good about refunding you account when a wine is in question. Just let them know, and they probably will not require you to send it back (they didn't with me, and it was a 4 bottle shipment).
They have had interesting (French and Italian) wines in the past, and hopefully will continue, though they seem to be slowing down with regard to better French buys.

[Jenise]

Richard, I just had to ask WTSO for a refund--they gave it, but begrudgingly. Mind you, I'm somewhat at fault for supposing that they wouldn't ship cross-country in July and not putting a HOLD on a given order, but they shipped two days before the Fourth of July which caused it to spend the holiday weekend in Kentucky. When I saw that, I complained, and their answer was "We ship all over the country and can't monitor everyone's weather" and they denied having any policy related to summer shipping. To that I simply pointed out that July in America doesn't require site-specific monitoring--it's hot everywhere--and that shipping prior to a holiday in particular does not live up to the statement described in their shipping policy, "We do everything possible on our end to protect our products from temperature related damage". Instead, it guarantees that the shipment will spend even more time in a "a Fedex or UPS facility that is not temperature controlled"--the dangers of which they warn customers about in describing the need for prompt returns. A bit of a one-way street there: it's not a problem when the wine's on it's way to you, only a problem when the wine's on its way back to them.

It is important to wait about 4-6 weeks after receiving a shipment of their wines before opening a bottle.

In my humble opinion this is true for just about all wine not just wine from one particular source.

Sparknotes version of my thoughts on WTSO:

-You can get some pretty decent stuff at reasonable prices
-I always trust it more if it's had a good review from somebody who's not John H Newman
-I generally now only ever buys red - whites have much more commonly put up a very poor show and I can easily get good everyday drinkers that I know are good in wine stores
-I also more frequently buy reds that are imported from a region I know and trust to be pretty good (rioja, barbaresco, etc. etc.)
-Every once in a while they hold marathons in which you can often find some quite well known wines - their holiday gift marathon this year featured offerings such as silver oak and sassicaia
-Shipping can be remarkably fast - I'm close by in nyc and they can show up within 2 days even with just the free shipping
-The minimum bottle count required for free shipping is usually pretty damn good - they generally look for you to spend $80+, but never require more than 4 bottles

I've been keeping an eye on Last Bottle as well and from what I've seen they look pretty good and rely much more on actual wine reviews as opposed to JHN, though they cycle through wines much more slosly and I have yet to actually purchase anything from them because I have a small wallet and they require 6+ bottles for free shipping on their cheaper offerings. If you like WTSO and are interested in checking out last bottle as well see here:
http://www.lastbottlewines.com/invite/f ... 64a89.html

[Jenise]

Alex, I rely on CellarTracker notes rather than critic's scores when considering a purchase on WTSO, but it's also true that if the only score they have is Newman's, I am immediately uninterested in the offer.

The Rioja I mentioned above Bodegas Olarra Anares Rioja Reserva 2006 has 165 CT reviews with an average rating of 89.5 points. I )like most) don't p\ay a lot of attention to point ratings, but I suspect the people on CT do have a clue so I usually do pay some attention to what they say.

I hate to say this Bob but there are some bizarre notes and scores on CT. One really has to be careful.

I hate to say this Bob but there are some bizarre notes and scores on CT. One really has to be careful.

Why do you hate to say that? I thought it was conventional wisdom that CT reviews (like Yelp reviews and pretty much everything on the internet) are only useful if you know the person.

Thank you both Bob P and Rahsaan, what you say is of course true. I have had the wine in question, and liked it well enough to call WTSO and order a case. in this instance, for my palate, it is a good wine. I have in the past given my recommendations to friends and have never gotten a negative report back yet. Of course it stands to reason that my friends are too polite to to report a negative on one I recommended.

CT is good for notes from those you trust. The average score is pretty meaningless, and 89.5 is probably below average. Ranking my cellar by CT score, 89.5 comes in on page 15 out of 24. Page 12 is 90.1-90, though median is probably slightly higher, as I have couple pages at end of wines without CT average. Vast majority of scores are between 88-92. Does anyone know how to generate overall community average score?

Rahsaan hit the nail on the head. Reviews by people you don't know are meaningless. Yelp is worthless.

This is why (years ago) many people thought Parker's review were valuable. Agree or disagree with a particular review his palate is/was pretty consistent.

I am an unabashed fan of WTSO. We buy LOTS of daily drinking champagnes from the site because they offer excellent QPRs compared to what I can buy locally. The Prie rose' champagne is an outstanding value at $30/bottle in my opinion.

I pay no attention to the Newman reviews. You have to be a savvy shopper and know your stuff. If you take that approach and don't let the ridiculous level of hype get under your skin you should be pleased.

PS: WTSO will hold your order for an extended period before shipping. I have some Caymus Special Selection that they are holding until October.