Posner v Seldon: Don't like wine, sue retailer?

[Robin Garr]

I expect this brouhaha has already seen a lot of discussion on the East Coast wine boards, but I hadn't heard about it until I ran across this post by a NYC wine guy on Facebook. Interestingly, I've met both Posner and Seldon. I liked Posner, so my fist pump is probably a little biased.

Patron Who Didn't Like Wine Loses Suit Against Retailer
Brendan Pierson, New York Law Journal
April 08, 2014

A Manhattan judge has dismissed a fraudulent inducement lawsuit filed against a wine store and its owner by a customer who bought six $12.99 bottles of a wine he didn't like.

Civil Court Judge David Cohen also dismissed a claim accusing the White Plains store, Grapes, The Wine Company, and its owner, Daniel Posner, of defamation for calling the customer "a disgusting human being."

The plaintiff, Philip Seldon, has written several books about wine, including "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wine." Seldon also attracted attention in the mid-1990s when he taught a night school class called "Getting Even," about how to get revenge legally, according to a 1995 article in the Los Angeles Times.

Seldon bought six bottles of 2009 Cune Vina Rioja Crianza after getting an email promotion from the store. The email said the store's staff was "very impressed" with the wine and that the "old world style of Rioja" is on a roll. It also touted the wine's 91 rating from leading wine critic Robert Parker.

Seldon, after deciding that he didn't like the wine, demanded a refund.

You'll find the rest of the story in the New York Law Journal here ...

http://www.newyorklawjournal.com/id=120 ... 0310093555
Read more: http://www.newyorklawjournal.com/id=120 ... z2yUTtnhdD

[David M. Bueker]

The guy is a serial lawsuit filer.

[Robin Garr]

The guy is a serial lawsuit filer.

"Seldon also attracted attention in the mid-1990s when he taught a night school class called "Getting Even," about how to get revenge legally"

But to be accurate this is not really about the wine its about the owner callig him a "disgusting human being", correct?

I'm sure there's WAY MORE to this story but why would any wine shop refuse to credit the unused bottles? That seems like bad business. I've bought 4 or 6 bottles several times and not liked the first one and returned the other 3 or 5. Of course I always buy something else while I'm there - I don't ask for cash back.

Perhaps the wine store DID offer a credit on the unopened bottles, but Seldon wanted a refund on the entire purchase. Or a credit towards purchasing other wine was offered, while he wanted a refund. Or he drank down all six bottles before coming to the conclusion that he didn't like the wine. Seldon does come across in all this as having an abrasive personality (nice people don't try to "get even").

If I'd been the judge, Seldon would have been assigned all the costs of the litigation, and I'd have reprimanded and sanctioned his lawyer for aiding and abetting frivolous lawsuits that waste the court's time.

-Paul W.

Sounds to me as if Posner is spot on in his descriptions.

And I guess I would like that wine myself.

[David M. Bueker]

I'm waiting for the sequel: Seldon v. Garagiste

I remember around the time I first became involved in the wine business someone with a name like Philip Seldon was the editor or publisher of a wine magazine called Vintage, which, if I'm not mistaken, had a sometimes contributor named Tom Hill. So It's possible, I suppose, that Tom has followed this story from the very start?

I remember around the time I first became involved in the wine business someone with a name like Philip Seldon was the editor or publisher of a wine magazine called Vintage, which, if I'm not mistaken, had a sometimes contributor named Tom Hill. So It's possible, I suppose, that Tom has followed this story from the very start?

That's hilarious!! Touche!!

But to be accurate this is not really about the wine its about the owner callig him a "disgusting human being", correct?

I'm sure there's WAY MORE to this story but why would any wine shop refuse to credit the unused bottles?

http://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2014/04/ ... ules-judge
It was 2 claims, fraudulent enducement and defamation. Hard to take either seriously. The enducement was that the staff was "impressed" . Grapes offered him a store credit, which he refused, demanding cash refund for entire order. After he contested the Amex charge, Daniel apparently described him accurately (besides his teaching revenge courses, he has more than 100 lawsuits against 160 defendants currently in NYS). If calling an a##hole an a##hole in correspondence was defamation, many of us would be in trouble.

Posner is direct and opinionated, but he's an exceedingly fair retailer.

As to the wine, looks like Jenise and Josh Raynolds both liked it for level
https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp? ... 4fc3c2d9ee

I remember around the time I first became involved in the wine business someone with a name like Philip Seldon was the editor or publisher of a wine magazine called Vintage, which, if I'm not mistaken, had a sometimes contributor named Tom Hill. So It's possible, I suppose, that Tom has followed this story from the very start?

Yup...that would be me, Steve. Didn't have a clue that I was famous, did you???

Here's what I wrote on WB over a yr ago:

PhilipSeldon: Yup...I know him....followed him from the very start. He founded one of the first good wine magazines, Vintage, back in
the mid-'70's (prolly afore your time, Mary). I, in fact, wrote maybe 4-5 articles for Vintage. The magazine probably went under
around 1980 is my recollect. Still have an unbroken set of Vintage magazines.
Philip started w/ an Architecture magazine, I believe, afore starting Vintage. It was a pretty decent magazine w/ lots of good articles.
A real wine publication.....not what passes for wine journalism these days which is mostly a compilation of tasting notes w/ associated
scores. In the later yrs, he hired HankRubin (founder of the PotLuck restaurant...which focused on fresh/seasonal ingredients afore
AliceWaters made it trendy; wine Q&A columnist in BonApetit...back when it was a Pillsbury publication; first SFChron wine columnist)
as the Editor; who was my Editor and one of the finest gentlemen I've ever met in the wine industry.
I never met Philip in person (he was a resident of NYC), but had several phone conversations w/ him afore I started writing for Hank.
I sent in an Letter-to-the-Editor once that disputed some point he had made. He called me on the phone and berated me for thinking him
and idiot (which I did not) and talking down to him. Other other phone conversations were fairly civil, though he pretty much made it
clear he thought me a "nobody" (which I, in fact, was...and still am).
Other peoples interactions w/ Philip were not so friendly. He was wont to sue at the drop of a hat and did so frequently over trivial issues.
Other friends described him as condescending and arrogant...but that was not my take. He left Hank with a lot of unpaid $$'s for his
services as Editor. Which Hank never recovered.
After Vintage closed shop, I lost all contact w/ Philip. Friends related that he would still show up on the wine-tasting scene in NYC
from time to time. He wrote the "Wine Tasting for Idiots" book or some such silly tome. I wasn't impressed w/ it. I presume he is still alive.

That's about all I can relate.

[James Roscoe]

I have a bottle of the Cune Rioja at home which I bought after tasting. I believe it was $12.99 in Annapolis.

Personally I would have called Seldon a stupid son of a beech!

I have a bottle of the Cune Rioja at home which I bought after tasting. I believe it was $12.99 in Annapolis.

Personally I would have called Seldon a stupid son of a beech!

C`on man,tell us what you really think!

Sorry for the late reply on this one, but I just saw it.

Without saying too much, what others said previously was true.

Customer ordered 6btls.

We delivered 6 btls.

Customer opened 1 btl and did not like it.

Customer demanded we pickup unopened 5 btls and refund for all 6 btls.

We offered a store credit for unopened 5 btls.

Customer refused and disputed charge with AMEX.

Customer lost dispute.

Customer disputed with AMEX again.

Customer lost dispute.

Customer disputed with AMEX again.

Customer lost dispute (and in private correspondence with AMEX, some things were said in regards to how this was a waste of time for all parties, which included some opinions on the matter).

Customer filed suit in NY courts.

Grapes refused to settle the case.

Judge dismissed the case.

To fight for $ in return would have to be a separate motion filed, which would cost more $. Judges seldom grant such motions.

Obviously, Grapes could have lost a lot of money here, however we felt good about our case. We are very happy to take back wine for store credit. As has been our policy for years, provided it has been cared for properly.

Thank you for the response!

And the thread should be Seldon vs Posner/Grapes, as he sued us.

Seems a proper resolution to me.

Back in my retailing days, had a customer come in looking for a case of sparkling wine. Wanted it to be "French, so it'll impress my guests" but "cheap, because I don't want to pay too much for stuff like this."

I sold him a very good, decent quality, low priced sparkling Chasselas (with of course no mention of grape variety) from the Jura, methode champenoise and exceedingly popular with our clientele.

He came back a week later, said he really wasn't impressed with the sparkling wine we sold him and he wanted a full refund.

I asked him what was wrong, and he replied "I just didn't care for it." I said, bring back the bottles and I'll give you a full refund. He said, "I can't do that. We drank it all and I threw the bottles away. Just give me a refund."

I refused. He said he'd never come in the store again and we had lost him as a customer. I said "Have a nice day, sir."

He didn't sue me though.

The resolution seems proper to me as well. If you want cash back when you purchase something you need to get clarification of the exact terms of the sale before you purchase. If the long standing policy of the store was to provide store credit for returns then that seems to be it. Of course, the situation would be different if the wine was defective as opposed to "I didn't like it." But my years in business have convinced me that there are some (blessedly few) customers that simply cannot be satisfied and think the entire world revolves around them.

Best Wishes,
Glenn

I did find the judge's decision online

not a long read, but not very exciting either

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/ot ... 543-u.html

I did find the judge's decision online

not a long read, but not very exciting either

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/ot ... 543-u.html

What a giant waste of taxpayer money.

[Robin Garr]

I did find the judge's decision online

not a long read, but not very exciting either

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/ot ... 543-u.html

Not "exciting," maybe, but interesting, and in places amusing. I'm not absolutely sure, but I halfway suspect that buried in all the legalese, the judge is entertaining the possibility that plaintiff may in fact be "a disgusting human being."

Tom

I could not agree more. But coming from a legal background, along with a brother who is a lawyer, as well as a wife who is a lawyer, this pales in comparison to other wasteful situations.

A few documents had to be filed and I think there was just one court appearance and while it took a few months, then the judge ruled.

I doubt the judge spent more than 20 man hours on this one...if that.

As I mentioned earlier, I was not settling this nor backing down. Our system is messed up, which allows for frivolous lawsuits to be filed and settled without any wrong doing.

When someone can file lawsuits off of a template and have companies just fork over thousands of dollars to avoid the court room, something is broke.