So, the Ripassa tasting was last night

[Jenise]

And I bought, based on reccomendations here:

2009 Mussella
2010 La Salette
2010 Allegrini Palazzo
2009 Tomassi Bussola
2009 Masi Campofiorin

I was going to buy the Masi Oro (which oddly, is available in Canada but not the U.S., where the straight Campofiorin appears to be available here but not there) but couldn't manage to find five extra minutes to stop and buy that wine, and in the meantime my friend who I ordered the wines through had already picked up a whole case of the other Masi for his shelves, so I just said sure, fine, and went with that. The sixth wine was going to be the Trader Joe's $10 Ripasso, which I personally liked a LOT, especially for $10, but had some reservations about because I knew, being lighter, it would be last place. I never knowingly serve a wine I suspect will be last place--I've been right about its placement every time I did.

And in the meantime I also tasted the Amarone from Trader Joe's (and could hear Clint Hall's recommendation in my head), and also in the meantime, I tasted the 2009 Zenato Ripassa. Zenato's Ripassa is a little ubiquitous around here--that is, both of the local store chains carry it. You want Ripassa? Any store around here will have two or three brands on it's shelves at any one time: the Zenato will be one, the Allegrini has a strong probability of being one of the others and the third will be something you don't see anywhere else. For that reason alone, I initially disregarded the Zenato though I've liked every bottle of it I've had. But after tasting it and realizing how well the 09 is showing, the ubiquitousness that initially struck me as a negative became a positive: "here's a ripasso that's right under your nose all the time, and with good reason" I could tell them. I could also taste that it would be popular, and therefore worth the higher-than-average price it commands ($29-31 locally).

So I made a random choice and pulled the Musella back for my own cellar (I only serve six wines at each tasting), went into town and bought the Amarone (the wine description on my handout said "Vino Velvet--not the best Amarone you'll ever drink but probably the best and only $20 Amarone you'll ever drink") and the 2009 Zenato. I had six wines for the tasting, plus several pinot gris and soaves for self-pouring beforehand.

And here's how they voted, along with total points:

First place with 20 first place votes and 74 points overall: 2010 Trader Joe's 'Pasqua' (their house brand) Amarone
Second place with 8 first place votes and 64 total points: 2009 Zenato (my second place)
Third place with 8 first place votes and 56 total points: 2009 Tommassi Bussola
Fourth place with 4 first place votes and 25 total points: 2010 La Salette (my first place vote)
Fifth place with 1 first place vote and 22 total points: 2010 Allegrini
Sixth with 3 first place votes and 16 total points: 2009 Masi Campofiorin

No surprise about the Amarone--it really did show well, and it had a richness to the sweetness that was rather recioto-like, per the observations of the one other guy in the room who actually knows what recioto is, and he knows this area well (he has a cellar full of Quintarellis). Masi's last place was also not surprising given that it was easily the driest of the six wines--I purposefully installed it in position A, to be tasted first, because of that. And the Amarone I put in position F, to be tasted last, and furthermore announced at the outset that it was the Amarone so that at least they'd not hold not being more like that against the other wines. Which did nothing to diminish it's popularity, obviously.

My last place wine? The Allegrini. Bugger has a severe green note not typical of other vintages I've had in the past, and that three hours of decanting helped minimize but couldn't eradicate. I do not recommend.

But oh how gorgeous was the super spicy La Salette. Lots of acid which scared some people away (they overvalue "smooth"), but I adored it. The Bussola and the Zenato were pretty much my co second place wines, both spicy, with a balanced sweetness and richness underneath.

Anyway, thanks to all for your help and advice.

Only twenty bucks for an Amarone, and you guys liked it! That's a good price even for a repassa. I'll have to hike up the hill to our closest Trader Joe's, in Queen Anne, and buy a few.

[David M. Bueker]

Sounds like it was great fun. What's the alcohol running on these wines lately?

[Jenise]

David, I didn't look at them all, but two I *did* look at were 13 and 13.5% respectively, so moderate. The Amarone came in higher at 15%, of course.

Only twenty bucks for an Amarone, and you guys liked it! That's a good price even for a repassa. I'll have to hike up the hill to our closest Trader Joe's, in Queen Anne, and buy a few.

I've had that wine, Clint, and it is okay. Perfectly drinkable and well in the Amarone camp.

Might suffer from being placed in comparison to some of the more exalted ones....but, hey, can't we say that about ourselves all the time? Fine for casual drinking with casual companions that aren't cranky people from just over the border who actually have standards.

[Jenise]

Might suffer from being placed in comparison to some of the more exalted ones....but, hey, can't we say that about ourselves all the time? Fine for casual drinking with casual companions that aren't cranky people from just over the border who actually have standards.

Would definitely suffer, but put it in context. As I said in the handout I gave the tasters: "Vino Velvet--not the best Amarone you'll ever drink but probably the best and only $20 Amarone you'll ever drink." I liked the $10 Ripasso from TJ's (same house brand) better, but again, in context: not the best Ripasso I've ever had but the best $10 Ripasso I've ever had.

Might suffer from being placed in comparison to some of the more exalted ones....but, hey, can't we say that about ourselves all the time? Fine for casual drinking with casual companions that aren't cranky people from just over the border who actually have standards.

Would definitely suffer, but put it in context. As I said in the handout I gave the tasters: "Vino Velvet--not the best Amarone you'll ever drink but probably the best and only $20 Amarone you'll ever drink." I liked the $10 Ripasso from TJ's (same house brand) better, but again, in context: not the best Ripasso I've ever had but the best $10 Ripasso I've ever had.

Yep, that's what I did: put it in context. Because there's a lot more everyday and casual wine consumption than there is the grand and glorified. And we're all in search of decent and drinkable wines at moderate price points.

Well, if the La Salette is a relative lightweight, that's OK. I enjoy Amarones, but my problem is I have a hard time matching them with anything other than four-footed game and regiannao parmagiano. Something midway between Ripasso and traditionale Amarone might be more versatile.

Interesting. Carl Eppig, Bob Henrick and I have all posted on the Trader Joes' Pasqua Valpolicella Ripasso before as an acceptable value wine. I don't know if the Raleigh Trader Joe's also carries the Pasqua Amarone but I may look for it if I go there again. I was disappointed in most of the wines I picked up at that first visit to Trader Joe's so haven't been back lately.

[Jenise]

I was disappointed in most of the wines I picked up at that first visit to Trader Joe's so haven't been back lately.

I hear you. Buoyed by the success of the Amarone and my liking that little ten buck Ripasso, while there on Saturday afternoon I picked up a house brand Aglianico, also a California chardonnay described as having "just a hint of oak"--a decent cheap chardonnay for cooking purposes is something I could use. WELL. The Aglianico was just decent on first sip and was showing heavy vinegar notes before we even finished the first glass--it's going back (they're pretty cheerful about refunds). And the chardonnay has more than a hint of oak--what's more, it's highly obviously American. Egads--so much for the house brands. Lot of variance in quality.

TJ is not the place it used to be. As Robin has pointed out previously, TJ was purchased by an international mega-cartel and, although it might appear casual and homey, it's very much a corporation now.

It also used to be a quirkier, more nimble, and totally unpredictable wine purveyor. For the first several years they were known as the King Of Closeout, where brands went to take their final gasp and die. They were merciless in taking advantage of winery needs for closeouts and end of bin, etc. Sometimes these were good wines; sometimes they weren't.

TJs was also damned good at sourcing out opportunities, mostly at getting decent QPR wines, where you got the gist of whatever it was without having to worry about name labels and all that. They had their buying finger totally on the pulse of (mainly) the Californa market and made some killer deals.

Not as much the case now. More standardized, more house brands, where you can take the same juice and just switch to another label in the stable if you want to. Still some decent stuff (for instance, my wife and I like the price and style of the Sauvignon Republic, a brand created by three SB lovers to showcase SB around the world, but didn't survive; TJ bought up the last of it and now has it turned in to their proprietary brand. Don't know who makes it anymore. Just know it's decent NZ style SB at a decent price.)

You have to be careful, of course. And I would never buy a case or mixed case of anything at TJ without tasting a bottle first, to see what particular batch that was or from what particular producer. And some of their stuff is just unmitigated crap---like their Vouvray. Watery, insipid blah sugar water. Two Buck Chuck? Feh, just whatever wine tank field decided to open its wine faucet that particular day, probably to get rid of some excess supply. It satisfies the demand for people who might drink wine but don't care about it one way or the other. And that's okay. We need wines like that out there too.

When the fellow who used to own and run Trader Joe's sold out, he started doing a blog -- I gues it was a website in those days -- all about wine as that had been the love of his life when he owned the business. Maybe the site is still up and running. I stopped buying wine at TJ's decades ago but a few of the food items remain outstanding bargains. Nuts for instance. They buy them in tremendous bulk at the lowest possible prices that sell quickly and make them, as far as I know (I'm mostly an almond guy), fresher than the nuts in any retail outlets other than specialty nut shops.

When the fellow who used to own and run Trader Joe's sold out, he started doing a blog -- I gues it was a website in those days -- all about wine as that had been the love of his life when he owned the business. Maybe the site is still up and running. I stopped buying wine at TJ's decades ago but a few of the food items remain outstanding bargains. Nuts for instance. They buy them in tremendous bulk at the lowest possible prices that sell quickly and make them, as far as I know (I'm mostly an almond guy), fresher than the nuts in any retail outlets other than specialty nut shops.

Nuts are still one of the things I buy at TJs, Clint.

Things I never buy: bread products of any kind.

[David M. Bueker]

TJ is not the place it used to be. As Robin has pointed out previously, TJ was purchased by an international mega-cartel and, although it might appear casual and homey, it's very much a corporation now.

It's not like that's anything new. It happened in 1979.

David! 1979 was only yesterday.

TJ's is certainly a different place than it was 30 years ago but as far as the wine goes, the close-out model survived well past TJ's sale to the Albrecht family in 1979. I suspect the change to store brands and a less interesting wine selection had more to do with TJ's own success than it did the change in corporate ownership. The close-out thing might have been practical when TJ's was a handful of stores confined to Southern California, harder to stock 400+ stores that way.

The point in mentioning the history of TJs was to indicate that, while the "original" ownership of Joe Coloumbe was of an essentially southern Cal chain that had a somewhat quirky identity (which customers really loved), the current TJs is a widespread organization across many states, and it is managed by a very efficient corporation that succeeds, in part, because it carefully cultivates and maintains that image it originally purchased. Just as Whole Foods maintains its image.

That's okay; it's a successful business model. And TJs has done a damn fine job over the years. We shop there, as my wife likes many aspects of TJs and there are several things I like as well. And the people are friendly and hospitable---versus going into, say, a Safeway where it feels like every employee gets all the life sucked out of them by management and any minute they're either going to commit suicide or go postal on you. But I don't have any illusions that TJs is a neighborhood store, or that old Bob, the kindly old hippie in the backroom, is trying to find good deals on some overlooked QPR wines that, for some reason, you've never heard of before.

As to the close-out king---as Mark says, hard to keep that model going over the years with so widespread an empire. Some businesses do it, though: Canned Foods Outlet and Grocery Outlet have pretty much owned that biz for some time now.

Side note: there have been some articles over the years on the TJ model, and one thing that is constantly mentioned is that a whole lot of their overhead is invested in all the travelling their people make to source out and make killer deals for goods from suppliers. They're good at finding, and good at making deals to get the stuff for minimal cost. Like, say, Pasqua Ripasso. I happen to know this is not glamor travel, running off to cool vacation spots; it is (or can be) grueling work, dealing with some hardnosed people.

[Jenise]

TJ's is certainly a different place than it was 30 years ago but as far as the wine goes, the close-out model survived well past TJ's sale to the Albrecht family in 1979. I suspect the change to store brands and a less interesting wine selection had more to do with TJ's own success than it did the change in corporate ownership. The close-out thing might have been practical when TJ's was a handful of stores confined to Southern California, harder to stock 400+ stores that way.

You're exactly right. My first husband lived just down the hill from TJ's Store No. 2--it was a small, narrow and long shoe-boxed shaped store, and they had mostly imported wines, dry aged fresh Mannings beef in a meat case with a butcher, a bit of fresh produce to complete a meal with, lots of imported pickles and condiments, cheese and crackers. That was it. Fifteen years later I had a new husband and a store opened near us in Orange County, it may have been their 10th or so location. Great deals on excellent California wines surplussed by wineries that went out of business--we went through cases of Pat Paulsen Sauvignon Blanc, I remember! Rapid growth began after that, and the good deals petered out. The house brands are generally not good buys, I wouldn't have gone near that Ripasso if several of you here hadn't reccommended it. My experience with the other two wines I bought on Saturday is more the norm.

My last place wine? The Allegrini. Bugger has a severe green note not typical of other vintages I've had in the past, and that three hours of decanting helped minimize but couldn't eradicate. I do not recommend.

Frankly I've never been impressed by Pallazo della Torre. My impression is that it's a bit of a critical darling, but to me it's just not very well balanced.

[Jenise]

My last place wine? The Allegrini. Bugger has a severe green note not typical of other vintages I've had in the past, and that three hours of decanting helped minimize but couldn't eradicate. I do not recommend.

Frankly I've never been impressed by Pallazo della Torre. My impression is that it's a bit of a critical darling, but to me it's just not very well balanced.

Really? I haven't tasted that many of them in the past, maybe two vintages. But notably, I once owned a vintage I didn't care much for, the early bottles showing a lot of creamy/malty malolactic notes, so I left them alone for years. Turned out to be be an excellent thing to do, as once it gained secondary nuances it had matured into something I liked quite a bit. Have a hard time imagining the green aspect of these bottles turning into something good--I am not normally green-averse, but this was offputting.