WTN: WHAT A THRILL!!

Had my first "IceWine" experience this weekend! Two words- "absolutely awesome"!!

Two half-bottles (375ml):

2002 Mt. Boucherie Summit Reserve Riesling Icewine
British Columbia 11.5% alc.

&

2003 Chateau Ste. Michelle Reserve Columbia Valley
White Riesling Icewine 7.5% alc.

Having no previous knowledge or experience with icewine I really don't know how to measure/compare this stuff except that it was really good IMHO!

With the '02 there was a honeyed, floral nose - smells like "riesling concentrate", very nice. What should I expect, right? Viscous, syrupy but not something I would call "thick". Then the palate - WOW!! A sweetness-acidity-fruit-balance-perfection EXPLOSION! Just a sip was enough to send all flavor sensories into a collective tizzy! Pineapple, honeysuckle, Bartlett pear jam. Awesome, long intense finish.

The '03 was very similar just not quite as concentrated or complex. Although I could certainly see myself buying more of this stuff at $35 than I would the other stuff at $60- that's about $5 an ounce. Definitely an "occasional" indulgence. I'm definitely glad to finally jump into this realm of our amazing wine world!

Eiswein is certainly fun for me as well.

Out of curiosity, what is "white" riesling?

[Robin Garr]

Eiswein is certainly fun for me as well.

Out of curiosity, what is "white" riesling?

Jumping in here, Rahsaan, "White Riesling" is the Pacific Northwest's term for true Riesling. If I'm not mistaken, the term is actually required in Oregon (and the name Johannisberg Riesling is forbidden).

Eiswein is certainly fun for me as well.

Out of curiosity, what is "white" riesling?

Good question Rahsaan I don't know, I'll have to research that one. That's just what it says on the bottle.

Out of curiosity, what is "white" riesling?

White Riesling is a common synonym for Riesling, as is Rhine Riesling, Weisser Riesling and Johannisberg Riesling.

I don't see Canadian versions in my area, but you've reminded me that I have some German ones that I should try!

Does anybody know if the Ch Ste Michelle is a 'true' icewine (i.e., harvested off the vine in freezing conditions) or a 'manufactured' icewine (i.e., frozen in a freezer)?

I think it's the latter, but I'm not sure. I suspect that's part of the reason for the price difference too. In Canada, if it's labelled an icewine, it has to be a true icewine, but no such regulation exists in WA, I believe.

Great notes AAron and think John is spot on with his post here. John, did you see my Vidal post of a few days back?

Does anybody know if the Ch Ste Michelle is a 'true' icewine (i.e., harvested off the vine in freezing conditions) or a 'manufactured' icewine (i.e., frozen in a freezer)?

I think it's the latter, but I'm not sure. I suspect that's part of the reason for the price difference too. In Canada, if it's labelled an icewine, it has to be a true icewine, but no such regulation exists in WA, I believe.

I just checked on the Ste. Michelle web site and learned that it is indeed a naturally produced ice wine. Here's the scoop:

For the second year in a row, Mother Nature handed the winery the ideal conditions needed to make prized ice wine. (Chateau Ste. Michelle has produced ice wine only three other times in the winery’s history with the 1978, 1995 and 2002 vintages). Having just joined Chateau Ste. Michelle in early 2003 after years of winemaking in California, this was my first time making ice wine. It was an amazing experience to stand in the vineyard in the middle of the night in 14-degree weather picking frozen grapes as hard as marbles. It was like making wine on the dark side of the moon. The result is this exotic, luscious, ultra ripe wine with concentrated aromas and flavors of apricot and honey. The only thing I would do differently next time is wear long johns!

The 2003-2004 winter season was a rather cold one in many areas of eastern Washington. There were several cold periods in late 2003, and then there was the devastating freeze in January 2004 that destroyed 80% of the vines in Walla Walla. Apparently, one of those late 2003 freezes reached the Horse Heaven Hills area where Ste. Michelle has some Riesling vineyards.

Note that the tiny Red Mountain appelation in Benton City, WA routinely gets freezing winter weather. The folks at Kiona Winery planted Chenin Blanc vines in a cold spot in their vineyard to ensure they can produce their ice wine the natural way. We had a bottle of the 2004 Kiona Red Mountain Chenin Blanc Ice Wine ($25/375 ml bottle) to accompany a tart deep dish apple pie at Thanksgiving, and it was a wonderful match.

I have tasted some of the Canadian Ice Wines from the Niagara region, and they truly are fantastic. However, I cannot justify spending the lofty sum for them when there are other excellent dessert wines out there for a fraction of the price. In fact, tonight I enjoyed a glass of 1995 Chateau Ste. Michelle Horse Heaven Vineyard Late Harvest Riesling, which I purchased five years ago for $17 (375 ml bottle). This beauty is now a rich caramel color and has developed some slight diesel aroma. I wish I had a few more bottles in my collection. Oh well.

-- Clark

Thanks for the notes on the various North American ice wines. I may have to see if I can obtain some of the Chateau Ste. Michelle Riesling Ice Wine.

Robin is correct, of course, about the Riesling/White Riesling/Johannisberg Riesling situation. This was all confounded by the use of terms like "Grey Riesling", another variety entirely. Hence, the okay of the term "White Riesling" to signify the wine was 'true' Riesling and not something lesser.

The TTTB (formerly BATF), in all its resolute reasoning (i.e., not reasoning very well, and not resolute at all, their normal state of affairs), mandated some years ago that they wanted to clarify the issue regarding varietal Riesling, so they dictated that "Johannisberg" Riesling could no longer be used, and that Riesling should be used in the future. A time schedule was set.

People started to change their labels accordingly. Unfortunately, the TTTB waffled, and allowed the time table to be extended. So we had several producers who said, what the hell, and conformed to the new rules, and some others who decided not to change until they had to.

So now it's even more confusing than before. Thanks, TTTB.

...This was all confounded by the use of terms like "Grey Riesling", another variety entirely...

As I recall, there was also a hybrid called "Siegfried Riesling" in the '70s and perhaps early '80s. After searching around I discovered that it is now called simply Siegfried. There was also an Okanagan Riesling and an Emerald Riesling.

Wine - Federal Register

As Hoke said, there is Grey Riesling, which is actually Trousseau Gris, a gray mutation of the red Trousseau grape. It is grown principally in the Jura region of France and in California.

Emerald Riesling is a white hybrid developed by UC Davis in 1948. It is a cross between Riesling and Muscadelle.

In South Africa you'll find Cape Riesling, which is thought to be related to Crouchen Blanc, a French variety.

Clare Riesling is actually Colombard.

Okanagan Riesling is thought to be a Teleki hybrid rather than true vinifera.

Anyone know of others?

This is all very misleading to consumers and has not helped the reputation of true Riesling.

From the link I posted above, there is discussion about "Missouri Riesling", (a labrusca/riparia hybrid), Wa¨ lschriesling, Welschriesling, (also known as Laski Rizling, Olasz Rizling, Rakusky Rizling, Rizling Vlassky, Welsch Rizling) and Franken Riesling, which is a phased out name for Sylvaner.

There's also Riesling Italico, which isn't even a true Riesling.

Pelee Island made a varietal wine from it in 1991 that was stunning - I drank it with 6 years of bottle age and it was amazingly good wine.

Great notes AAron and think John is spot on with his post here. John, did you see my Vidal post of a few days back?

Yes, Bob I did check out your Vidal notes - good little quizzer/contest thing there.
I couldn't have participated in it if I wanted to (unless just to guess wildly) as i've never tasted a Vidal based wine.
That being said, I'm gonna save up and get me some of Inniskillin's 100% Vidal Icewine so I can get into the loop.

Thanks AAron, I wanted to mention "riesling" in my original tasting note but did not want to give out too many clues!!
I have another one planned for tomorrow, a red this time. Stay tuned!!

Funny, I just came across Welsch Riesling in my readings. It is commonly grown in Romania and Bulgaria.

Loved the enthusiasm of your TN's, Aaron! By all means, you must try Inniskillin's which was my first experience with ice wine, and every expensive ounce of wonderful. Now I must branch out and try others as you have!

Does anybody know if the Ch Ste Michelle is a 'true' icewine (i.e., harvested off the vine in freezing conditions) or a 'manufactured' icewine (i.e., frozen in a freezer)?

I think it's the latter, but I'm not sure. I suspect that's part of the reason for the price difference too. In Canada, if it's labelled an icewine, it has to be a true icewine, but no such regulation exists in WA, I believe.

John, I believe labeling wines utilizing grapes frozen post-harvest has likewise been against the rules in the US since the BATF issued a ruling on the subject in 1978. I know for a fact at least one California winemaker had his "icewine" label rejected in the early 80's - Randall Graham at Bonny Doon wanted to use that term for his freezer-made Muscat icewine and ended up settling for "Vin d'Glaciere" instead, a label I believe Bonny Doon still uses. Some winemakers were still playing fast and loose with the descriptive language on the labels, though, and the BATF (or whatever they're called these days) clarified in another ruling in 2002 that even hinting on the label of a freezer wine that it's "real" icewine is not OK. I believe it is true, however, that US regulations are not as specific as those of Canada and Germany in exactly how cold the grapes have to get. I think the US regulations say only "partially frozen", which no doubt gives some extra wiggle room. In principle at least, though, even in the US "icewines" are expected to freeze on the vine.

Loved the enthusiasm of your TN's, Aaron! By all means, you must try Inniskillin's which was my first experience with ice wine, and every expensive ounce of wonderful. Now I must branch out and try others as you have!

Have you ever tried Sauternes? I haven't yet. I'm just curious how it compares to icewine on the prestigous-dessert-wine level or is it pretty much a categoty all it's own?

Have you ever tried Sauternes? I haven't yet. I'm just curious how it compares to icewine on the prestigous-dessert-wine level or is it pretty much a categoty all it's own?

Sauternes and Ice Wine are, at one level, the same, yet they are very different. They are both dessert wines with extremely concentrated flavors, but they reach that point quite differently. To the real Sauternes lover, it is indeed a category all its own.

Loved the enthusiasm of your TN's, Aaron! By all means, you must try Inniskillin's which was my first experience with ice wine, and every expensive ounce of wonderful. Now I must branch out and try others as you have!

Have you ever tried Sauternes? I haven't yet. I'm just curious how it compares to icewine on the prestigous-dessert-wine level or is it pretty much a categoty all it's own?

Aaron, I have experienced a fine French Sauternes on only one occasion thus far, so my "comparison notes" and knowledge are obviously limited. I can tell you that they are both rich, viscous, full-bodied wines and, depending on the level of quality, immensely refined and complex, not to mention powerful. The biggest difference that I noticed was that the Inniskillin icewine, while sweet, was "lighter" tasting than the French Sauternes which was cloying in its sweetness and felt heavier. It was more of an aquired taste for me personally because I do not tend to like a cloying sweetness, though it was incredibly silky. As for how they compare on a "prestige" level, believe me when I say they can both make the wallet a lot lighter, especially a fine vintage French Sauternes! :cool:

Have you ever tried Sauternes? I haven't yet. I'm just curious how it compares to icewine on the prestigous-dessert-wine level or is it pretty much a categoty all it's own?

Ice wine is literally a category all its own because it comes from grapes that have frozen with juice preserved inside. I'm not a chemist, but somehow this process leads to higher acid than other late harvest wines (obviously the ratio of acid to sugar swings back in favor of the acid at some point), which is why Sauternes as well as many other late harvest wines feel heavier than ice wine (including TBAs from the same grape/vineyard as the icewine).

In addition, Sauternes uses blends of sauvignon blanc and more importantly semillion, to give that richer mouthfeel, plus the oak.

Just buy a bunch and figure out what you like..