Strange TCA Smell...

I was futzing around last night at my bookcase, standing up some wines for my tasting tonight. All of a sudden, I got this noticible whiff of TCA. I checked thru the 8-10 corks piled on one part of the bookshelf. Nope...no TCA there. I cleared off the 8 wines standing up from the bookshelf. Yup...TCA still there.
So I started sniffing down the row of books on that one shelf. Finally found the source...my copy of the Fox/Bear CafeBeaujolais paperback cookbook. As I leafed thru it, the TCA smell came on pretty strong. Very strange.
I use that cookbook about several times a year....like it a lot. Do I have to throw it out now for fear it may contaminate some of my wines I stand on the bookshelf??
Tom

Perhaps you could bake the book in your oven at about 200 degrees F for about a half hour or so.

I have more questions than I do answers.
1. Why would the book now smell of TCA? I associate TCA with wet cardboard/newsprint. Has the book recently gotten wet and is it possible that the smell is not TCA?
2. Does TCA need contact with the wine for the infection to travel to it or can it move through the air. I have always assumed it was a contact mechanism but then again did not BV have an issue in the winery that leads me to think it may not require contact to transfer.
3. Isn't there a connection to chlorine also? Did soneone recently clean the bookcase with a chlorine based cleaner? No one cleans my cellar but me.
4. Who still uses cookbooks?

I have more questions than I do answers.
1. Why would the book now smell of TCA? I associate TCA with wet cardboard/newsprint. Has the book recently gotten wet and is it possible that the smell is not TCA?

Well, Brian...my answers: It certainly smelled like what I recognize as TCA in wine. Could be that the book had gotten dampened sometime in the last yr or so sitting out on my kitchen counter. I'll, several times a year,
be walking down the aisles of my local grocery story and catch a TCA whiff. Usually it's from some recently deboxed dry goods or their flattened cardboard containers lying in the aisle.

2. Does TCA need contact with the wine for the infection to travel to it or can it move through the air. I have always assumed it was a contact mechanism but then again did not BV have an issue in the winery that leads me to think it may not require contact to transfer.

True....BV (and Hanzell) did have a problem w/ a TCA infection in their winery...so apparently it can be air-transmitted. However, I doubt that TCA could actually penetrate a sound cork.

3. Isn't there a connection to chlorine also? Did soneone recently clean the bookcase with a chlorine based cleaner? No one cleans my cellar but me.

No chlorine in my home that I know of.

4. Who still uses cookbooks?

Well...me...since I have a large collection that I frequently use. But I am moving into the modern age...I'm transferring my cookbook collection to punched cards!!
Tom

If this was a serious question, I wouldn't worry about it at all as far as wine being contaminated. The odor of TCA is described as "damp cardboard." I've smelled plenty of wooden and cardboard cases with a similar odor (whether it's TCA, a relative, or just a similar smell I do not know), and never noticed an correlation between the wines in those cases and TCA contamination. The only thing I would worry about is if it is strong enough that you smelled it from a few feet away, you might acclimate to the smell and then miss a lightly corked bottle. So I might suggest moving it to somewhere that's not right where you open wine.

If this was a serious question, I wouldn't worry about it at all as far as wine being contaminated. The odor of TCA is described as "damp cardboard." I've smelled plenty of wooden and cardboard cases with a similar odor (whether it's TCA, a relative, or just a similar smell I do not know), and never noticed an correlation between the wines in those cases and TCA contamination. The only thing I would worry about is if it is strong enough that you smelled it from a few feet away, you might acclimate to the smell and then miss a lightly corked bottle. So I might suggest moving it to somewhere that's not right where you open wine.

Well, Dale...semi-serious. I doubt it will contaminate any wines I set up there. But your suggestion makes absolute sense.
Tom

Tom responded before I did. I think it's pretty established that TCA contamination in the winery can contaminate wine or barrels (Ducru, BV, Montelena, etc). But I've never seen evidence that bottled wine can be infected by outside environmental forces. Do people who eat bagged "baby carrots" (which I think have a really high rate of contamination) get more corked wines than others?

I have more questions than I do answers.
1. Why would the book now smell of TCA? I associate TCA with wet cardboard/newsprint. Has the book recently gotten wet and is it possible that the smell is not TCA?
2. Does TCA need contact with the wine for the infection to travel to it or can it move through the air. I have always assumed it was a contact mechanism but then again did not BV have an issue in the winery that leads me to think it may not require contact to transfer.
3. Isn't there a connection to chlorine also? Did soneone recently clean the bookcase with a chlorine based cleaner? No one cleans my cellar but me.
4. Who still uses cookbooks?

I see no reason that TCA couldn't arise in paper making in the same way it arises in cork production. Paper is wood fiber that is routinely bleached, most probably with hypochlorite-type bleaches (I recall a lot of to-do a decade or so ago about getting red of chlorine-based bleaches from the production of paper coffee filters), so all you'd need is the proper fungus to methylate 2,4,6-trichlorophenol. I can't recall getting a TCA smell from a book myself, but it certainly doesn't sound unreasonable to me. As Dale said, I've certainly smelled TCA in cardboard before, which is probably the reason that I've had "corked" apples from the store.

Mark Lipton

I sometimes smell from a hotel toilet what seems to me like TCA, for whatever that's worth...

If this was a serious question, I wouldn't worry about it at all as far as wine being contaminated. The odor of TCA is described as "damp cardboard." I've smelled plenty of wooden and cardboard cases with a similar odor (whether it's TCA, a relative, or just a similar smell I do not know), and never noticed an correlation between the wines in those cases and TCA contamination. The only thing I would worry about is if it is strong enough that you smelled it from a few feet away, you might acclimate to the smell and then miss a lightly corked bottle. So I might suggest moving it to somewhere that's not right where you open wine.

When assisting downtown on the big delivery day and unpacking wines from Chile/Argentina, I frequently come across this TCA odor from the cardboard.

i believe that, while TCA can and does infect pallets and cardboard, generally, what we smell from cardboard (and books) is mildew, which happens to be close to the smell of TCA infection--or maybe part of it.

Tom,

I bought a used cookbook once that turned out to clearly smell of TCA. I don't worry about it. I'm already too sensitive to TCA, drives me crazy.

Tom responded before I did. I think it's pretty established that TCA contamination in the winery can contaminate wine or barrels (Ducru, BV, Montelena, etc). But I've never seen evidence that bottled wine can be infected by outside environmental forces.

Indeed, "research has shown" that bottled wine can NOT be affected by external TCA.

you haven't lived till you've smelled 'corked' roses. they come in a box and if the box is laid on a warehouse floor that has been cleaned with a chlorine product, the box will develope TCA and pass it on to the roses. i couldn't beleive it and had others confirm the smell of TCA on the roses.

i believe that, while TCA can and does infect pallets and cardboard, generally, what we smell from cardboard (and books) is mildew, which happens to be close to the smell of TCA infection--or maybe part of it.

Not in my case, and as I understand it cardboard really soaks up TCA, and is commonly 'infected' with it. Moldy and TCA are clearly different, to me.

Oliver,

I've been under the impression that TCA is a mold by-product.

Some might find the following link interesting

http://scienceline.org/2010/12/foiling- ... poil-wine/

Salute

Oliver,

I've been under the impression that TCA is a mold by-product.

Thomas,

I was referring to the smell. I don't find that TCA smells like moldy sandwich.

Both mildew and mold could have the same “fowl musty aroma”. “Mildew” and “mold” refer to the microorganism responsible for the creating the “aroma”. If you notice a powdery whitish/brownish/grayish/yellowish substance growing its most likely mildew. If you notice a fuzzy greenish/ blackish/purplish/blue-ish substance its most likely mold. Because corks and other substances have the ability to “absorb” odors the evidence or growth of the microorganism might not be observed.
In the case of wine if you guess “TCA taint” is the culprit and responsible for the “moldy/musty/damp/wet aroma” you would most likely be correct 80 to 85% of the time. But besides TCA there are other chemical compounds which can contribute to “musty/earthy aromas”.

Salute