Old topic New topic: Is vintage important? Say 07 08 France!

I see most of my choices, outside of futures, these days are from 07 and 08 in France. The Futures do not appear to be in my QPR range. What do you think of 07 and 08? I am not simply talking Bordeaux but Burgundy, Rhones and anything else you would consider.

The question is too broad, you need to narrow down regions/appellations, specific levels of wine, and when you plan to drink them. But yes, vintage is important!

Vintage is certainly important, though to me producer is generally more important than vintage. While the producers I favor definitely have lots of vintage differentation, I enjoy exploring the different facets. I'm generally much more likely to buy a producer I like in a "poor" vintage than an unknown producer in a "good" vintage.

That said, here are my generalizations (subject to all of the usual caveats re vintage generalizations ) of 07/08

Bordeaux: 2007 has a weaker reputation, but I've scarcely tasted any of either. I have enough older Bordeaux that its not really on my shopping list for newer vintages. Have some 2008 classed growths, but intend to drink them in 15+ years.
Burgundy(reds)- 2008 to me is clearly "better", but there are a lot of 2007s that are drinking well now. In 15 years don't think there will be any comparison, but 2007s can provide good drinking (and are often being dumped at good prices).
Rhone: limited experiences, 2007 is the more heralded (esp in South), but I've enjoyed the more restrained 2008s
Loire- even harder to generalize. Whites- 2008s tend to be quite acidic, I think prefer Touraine and Upper Loire to Muscadet. 2007 is fuller. I like 2007 reds, have not tried enough 2008 reds to opine.

I am looking at less expensive wines, say Bordeau like Branaire Ducru or Chateauneuf de Pape or even relatively inexpensive Cote Roti. Are the vintages worth purchasing because maybe they are cheaper than 09 or 10. In 01, I purchased several bottles of Bordeau, knowing they did not have the life expectancy of 00 but knew they would be good when I drank them. Are 07 and 08 bum years and not worth touching?

[David M. Bueker]

Are 07 and 08 bum years and not worth touching?

Heck no. '07 is a big vintage for the Southern Rhone and very good in the Northern Rhone. '08 as was mentioned by Dale, is a lovely Burgundy vintage.

It takes a year like 2002 in the Southern Rhone (flooding rains) to make a bad vintage anymore.

Will you impress people with 2007 or 2008 - not often. Will they be very enjoyable drinks - yes!

well, if branaire is 'less expensive' then definitly buy both the '07 and '08. the '07 in particular was an outstanding success that vintage. and i agree with the others that '08 in burgundy is really good - very typical and even drinkable in many cases. even aoc bourgogne have been very satisfying. i liked the '08 northern rhones as well - more traditional - less ripe and alcoholic.

if you like bordeaux you really should attend the union of grands cru tasting in toronto every year in january. i go to the one in chicago and it is a great experience. unfortunatly there is no similar event for burgundy.

For what it's worth, 2009 seems to be a very successful year in Burgundy, especially for the villages and regional wines (such as Cote de Nuits Villages) from top producers such as Faiveley, which are outperforming their appellation and hence represent good QPR.

-Paul W.

I also attended a UGC tasting, in Atlanta (of the '07 vintage). To me they seemed to be very nice wines, for the most part, and probably the last affordable vintage, at least for a while. We haven't seen many of them over here yet, but probably will. Bordeaux has a way of eventually showing up when you least expect it. It will be an early drinking vintage, which is not necessarily a bad thing. When you see some showing up, buy one or two or three, decant for one hour, back into the bottle, chill for 25 minutes in the fridge, taste with appropriate food. I think you will find some user-friendly wines at a decent price. Go back and buy 1/2 case or full case of what you liked and drink over the next 5 years. Bordeaux can be that easy in an off year. Most of what we tasted at the UGC were pretty darn good, just not ageable. People like the thought (for some unexplained reason) to sit and wait for 15 years for a wine to "soften-up". Everyone kept referring to the wines as a "restaurant vintage". I guess meaning early drinking and lower price. I hope I start seeing some on shelves around here.

Purchased Domaine de Bonserine, La Sarrasine Cote Rotie 2008 price reduced to $40 Canadian incl. taxes. Cote Rotie is difficult to buy here. This price seems great for the product which should last til 2022. I will keep looking.

Paul,

There does not appear to be any Faively 2009 at our Provincial stores. I have an 83 Faiveley Corton-Clos des Cortons which may end up at a MoCool. I suspect not a qpr

or even relatively inexpensive Cote Roti.

I have never met an inexpensive Cote Rotie and would think the likelihood akin to that of making acquaintance with a livid pink elephant.....

I also suspect that if I did meet one, it wouldn't be worth drinking, in terms of quality, as price normally follows quality.

Then I guess there is a divergence of opinion on QPR Bill.

I would not suggest that the La La's are a QPR. In fact, prices of wine has risen significantly over the last several years and many wines are beyond my reach that earlier vintages sit in my cellar.

Not sure we disagree. What do you consider relatively inexpensive?

2008 Domaine de Bonserine Côte-Rôtie La Sarrasine I paid $40 Cdn. Note comments from Globe and Mail Canadian wine writer in article http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/food- ... ice=mobile

Looks like you got a good deal as it seems to list for $50.

Still, given that Cote Roties in BC range between $100 and $170, a $50 example is arguably a deal, but only if it is good wine, and only if it beats out other wines available at the same price.

On that issue, you might want to look at the admittedly limited reviews on Cellartracker for that wine - a 78 and an 83 point score from people that regretted tasting it. Hopefully you'll like it more than that (as did the only other reviewer). I think I'd pass, myself, and buy some killer lesser Rhones for the price.

If I was to buy Cote Rotie, which I have in my cellar at prices over $100, then I would not be buying a QPR. I would question accepting two unknown reviews on Cellartracker on wine that obviously needs to be put down and so I read will not be drinkable at the earliest till 2022. I often find folk on Cellartracker think all wine should be easily drinkable on bottling. I have experienced myself, prematurely opening Rhones that are in a dead funk only to later find they open up. Again I am not suggesting that the wine is award winning. I would not buy or not buy, open or not open based on Cellartracker. I would based on WLDG.

Hachette, a french reviewer gives it 2/3 and says:

"By acquiring this field in 2006, Marcel Guigal has added a jewel to his crown already richly decorated. High twenty-four months half-hogshead, this wine with a hint of viognier grazed the favorite. If the woodland is still felt by vanilla, spice and smoky blend in nicely with red berries. The dense, structured while remaining silky extends over pleasant sensations of liquorice. A great wine that will have the patience to wait for greater complexity".

Quote translated by Google

Bill, As to lesser Rhones, I purchased Bosquet de Papes but the wine is 2010 and the topic is 2007 and 08. Also a 2009 CUVÉE CASIMIR BALTHAZAR CORNAS . Do you have any suggestions as to QPR as to quality 07 08 that would match these wines in price and quality. Both are similiar in price to the Cote Rotie. It is apparent that 09 was a good year in the North and 10 in the South.

I wouldn't use Cellartracker as a sure guide either, I was just indicating that a less than lukewarm reception even in a limited sample size warrants a bit of wariness.

Frankly, I'd probably buy other Rhones for the money, but you takes your chances and sometimes it pays off ansd sometimes it doesn't. Good luck with that one and let us know in a few years how it turns out.

Which reminds me - I have some 2001 Jamet I should taste soon.

And that will most definetly be better than the bottle we mentioned.

Well, as a general rule I'd agree that "hey, that's really cheap for Cote-Rotie/Brunello/Barolo/Amarone/Charmes-Chambertin/TBA" from a producer you don't know is a recipe for disappointment (I was burned several times doing that).
But one can buy decent Cote Rotie for well under $100 in US (dollars are pretty much par these days). In recent past I've paid less than $25 for 2001 Duclaux (fairly traditional) and Guy Bernard (more modern but not OTT). Neither is going to compete with Ogier or Jamet, but good buys.

Well, as a general rule I'd agree that "hey, that's really cheap for Cote-Rotie/Brunello/Barolo/Amarone/Charmes-Chambertin/TBA" from a producer you don't know is a recipe for disappointment (I was burned several times doing that).
But one can buy decent Cote Rotie for well under $100 in US (dollars are pretty much par these days). In recent past I've paid less than $25 for 2001 Duclaux (fairly traditional) and Guy Bernard (more modern but not OTT). Neither is going to compete with Ogier or Jamet, but good buys.

Dale, you have to remember that David and I suffer from the high Canadian prices. I'm sure we'd both agree that paying US market price would be much preferable!!

I've seen a 2X disparity in certain wines! Your $25 US Cote Rotie translates into a $50 min. wine in Canada.

Heyho Bill, I am suffering too!!

Bob.

[James Roscoe]

I thought it was traditional for Canadians to cross the border and stock up at US wine stores. Premier Wine and Spirits in the Buffalo region does a fair bit of business with Canadians so I am led to believe. Why do you think car manufacturers put all that empty space around the spare tire? Heck, who needs the spare tire?

On the subject of Côte-Rôtie and QPR, I'd say that nowadays it's an oxymoron, more or less. As much as I adore a good C-R, I just don't buy them any more. For my Rhônish $, I look these days to St. Joseph (Gonon, Faury and Faurie), Cornas (Voge, older Verset, Tunnel), Crozes (Graillot) and Eric Texier's "lesser" appellations. I'm not going to turn away a bottle of Ogier or Jamet C-R, but I'm not going to pay the tariff for them, either.

Mark Lipton