WTN: 07 Savennières, 07 Montlouis, 2012 summer food

roasted new potatoes, sauteed corn with lime and omelette with sauteed criminis, fresh garlic, basil and parsley
2007 Closel Savennières Clos du Papillon
Man this is some thick oily high octane wine. I guess I sort of see why they (and others) are going for this style because it is 'attractive' with all the ripe suave layers of fruit. But it's not a wine for repeated drinking, at least to my tastes. Because it's just so damned rich and hot. In all fairness it seems to gain some underlying acid mineral definition towards the end of the bottle and maybe will blossom with time? I just don't think I have the risk tolerance/cellar space to age any in hopes of finding out. I miss the old style!

But, it was very good with the food and all in all a fun meal.

pizza with tomato sauce, roasted red, yellow, orange peppers, basil, Fiore di Sardegna
2007 Chidaine Montlouis Les Bournais
This food match wasn't quite as synergistic as the previous, but the food and wine were both great so there was no complaining going on. The wine still has golden sweet fruit but is emphasizing its glistening mineral rocks more than my last bottle from many months ago. A very delicious balance. Last time it took much longer for that sharp mineral edge to appear so I look forward to seeing how this develops and integrates further in the future.

Thanks for the evocative notes, Rahsaan. Vouvray and Montlouis have always been closer to my heart than Savennières because they tend to be fresher, more mineral and more elegant. However, Savennières can be very impressive, e.g. the 2002 version of this same wine which boasted 14.5% alcohol; this 2007 sounds built in the same mould. One of my early tutors on Loire wine made the observation that Savennières really wanted to be a sweet wine but that it allowed its sugar (or most) to be fermented into alcohol.

Yes, the terroirs are very different and I know that ripeness and high alcohol is something that most of Anjou struggles to deal with. I also drink more Vouvray and Montlouis than Savennières or Western chenin in general, but that's also because Savennières seems to be going through a period of more stylistic upheaval and probably hasn't quite gotten a handle on the best way forward just yet.

Interestingly enough, this 07 Closel says 14.5% on the label but it seemed much hotter than my memories of the 02 and I wouldn't be surprised if the label was too conservative. The Chidaine label says 13.5% but it tasted much less alcoholic than the Closel.

I'm with you regarding the drawbacks of Savennieres.

2007 Closel Savennières Clos du Papillon
Man this is some thick oily high octane wine. I guess I sort of see why they (and others) are going for this style because it is 'attractive' with all the ripe suave layers of fruit. But it's not a wine for repeated drinking, at least to my tastes. Because it's just so damned rich and hot. In all fairness it seems to gain some underlying acid mineral definition towards the end of the bottle and maybe will blossom with time? I just don't think I have the risk tolerance/cellar space to age any in hopes of finding out. I miss the old style!

Old style? I don't think Closel has changed all that much. Hoe 'old' are we talking 'bout here? The 2002 was rich, as was the 2005...Savennieres are not for wimps. These are BIG wines, and I'd be hard pressed to find one under 14% alcohol. I love them but they need the right food, and I don't think they go well with vegetarian fare.

Old style? I don't think Closel has changed all that much. Hoe 'old' are we talking 'bout here? The 2002 was rich, as was the 2005...Savennieres are not for wimps..

2002 was the first year with the 'new' style at Closel (change of guard in terms of winemaking responsibilities) and if you taste the 2001 and 2002 next to each other you would notice the huge difference, even discounting the vintage characteristics. There were numerous aspects to the change including how they grow the grapes, when they pick, elevage, etc.

Savennières may not be for wimps in terms of potential alcohol but the flavor profile has changed very much in the 2000s, even among these old line estates (look at changes at Epire and apparently even recent vintage Domaine aux Moines goes for riper flavors). You've been around longer than I have, I'm sure you remember? Of course there were many downsides to the older style (overcropped underripe grapes and a ton of sulfur) but when done well it was certainly more pleasurable to drink in quantity than these oversized headbanging wines.

Ditto what Rasaan said. A few years ago I talked with Closel's winemaker's daughter and asked her for a drinking window prediction for their 2002 Papillon. She said they really didn't know as the winemaking style had changed considerably when her mother took over. I loved the 2002 Closel Papillon but agree that Savennieres have evolved into an uncertain mixed bag. I never know what it's going to taste like or how long to age it. Viva Vouvray!

Interesting dialogue. I love Savennieres, and it has always been a different animal than Vouvray - heavier, riper, drier (usually), and more alcohol. But I have to agree that the region's wines seem to be caught in a bit of a crisis right now. Perhaps the warmer climate has hurt it more than many other regions, but there many producers have also fallen prey - as in all wine regions - to the 'bigger is better' phenomenon. They have a tendency to become a 'too much' wine now, and it's still unclear whether more time will help them tone down their power, ripeness and heat. They certainly don't seem to be great food wines now. Add that to the ever-present oxidation issue, and you have a wine region with a problem. Hopefully they will find a way out of this, as, at their best, they are unique, wonderful, world class wines!

many producers have also fallen prey - as in all wine regions - to the 'bigger is better' phenomenon. They have a tendency to become a 'too much' wine now, and it's still unclear whether more time will help them tone down their power, ripeness and heat.

That's part of it. But it's also a generational transition and a historical/class transition in who has access to the better vineyards. Lots of ferment and change from many directions, that will probably take a while to sort out. Interesting stuff, but I don't necessarily need to pay for every sample bottle along the way!

If you haven't already seen, this site gives a pretty good overview of the dynamics: http://www.richardkelley.co.uk/savennieres_index.htm