Sparkling Cuvée Question

The three primary grapes used in the production of Champagne are Pinot Noir, Chardonnay and Pinot Meunier. I'm planning on making about 13 gallons (65 bottles) this year of bubbly and would like to use a traditional blend such as this. However, not only do I know of no source for Pinot Meunier, I don't recall ever tasting a wine from the grape. I do, however have a source for Pinot Gris, which is listed as a grape allowed in the production of Champagne. While trying to make sense of some of these grapes, I consulted The Winegrape Glossary. Apparently, Pinot Meunier is a Pinot cepage. Also, Pinot Gris and Pinot Blanc are both crosses derived from Pinot Meunier X Traminer. So, I'm guessing Pinot Gris might work in the cuvée blend. I'm thinking of using about 50% Pinot Noir and about 25% each of Chardonnay and Pinot Gris, all from local grapes. I will make arrangements to get the grapes before normal harvest, at about 19 Brix. Does this sound like a workable plan?

Hey Howie, it sounds like a great plan to me. How do you plan on doing the freeze/removal of lees during the disgourgement process? It seems like a tricky operation.

The same way I've been doing it for years - I put the bottles in my freezer, upside down, for a couple of hours. They freeze through the bottle cap first and up into the neck of the bottle.

Seems reasonable. Of course, plenty of Champagne just uses PN & Chard, so you don't need the PG. I think most (all?) new planting has to be "the big three" , but older PG, Pinot Blanc, Arbanne, and something else are grandfathered in.

Howie,

Chateau Frank, Dr. Frank's sparkling wine operation, uses Meunier in some of their non-blanc de blanc cuvees. They might have even had an all Meunier wine, a rose, IIRC. You might ask someone there about their sources (I suspect they grow it).

Thanks Joe. I'm not sure how soon I'll make it down their, but will investigate on my next FL visit.

Howie,

Chateau Frank, Dr. Frank's sparkling wine operation, uses Meunier in some of their non-blanc de blanc cuvees. They might have even had an all Meunier wine, a rose, IIRC. You might ask someone there about their sources (I suspect they grow it).

Hi Joe -

I had the Dr. Frank Brut Rosé Célèbre back in 2007 (it was purchased at the winery in 2006), and it was 100% Pinot Meunier back then. Anyway, I would be interested to know from those more in touch with the Finger Lakes scene if this cuveé is still 100% Meunier.

Yes Andrew, that is the one I'm thinking of. I just looked at their website and they claim it is still 100% Meunier. Howie - you should find this one on the shelves at a place like Premier in Buffalo.

I just checked Premier's website and they have 4 Chateau Frank bottlings, but not the Celebre Rosé.

Also, Pinot Gris and Pinot Blanc are both crosses derived from Pinot Meunier X Traminer. So, I'm guessing Pinot Gris might work in the cuvée blend.

I don't think the 25% PG will hurt.

But, from what I understand, the logic I have quoted here is faulty. Different crosses from the same parents can give very different grapes from a wine flavour point of view - different from the parents and different from each other.

But, from what I understand, the logic I have quoted here is faulty. Different crosses from the same parents can give very different grapes from a wine flavour point of view - different from the parents and different from each other.

Indeed! But I think they would also have some similarities. The only three grapes I know of that have the same parents are hybrids - Foch, Leon Millot and Lucy Kuhlman. They are different, but do have similarities.

For what it's worth, in Germany they make a varietal Pinot Meunier - only they call it Schwartz (black) Riesling.
I had one try at it and it was very flowery, ripe and sweet without any notable acidity or balance, nothing to write home about.
As for PG and PB, this is the first time I hear they're allowed in champagne. I join those who recommended to just skip the PM as many champagne houses do and stick to PN and chard.

Good luck,

Lior

Up until the 1960’s there was still some Gamay planted in the Champagne region of France.

Salute

Incidentally I have just checked the allowable varieties in Champagne: "Les vins sont issus exclusivement des cépages arbane B, chardonnay B, meunier N, petit meslier B, pinot blanc B, pinot gris G et pinot noir N". I could not see any minimum of maximum percentages mentioned, but maybe I was looking in the wrong place. It would be strange to have a Champagne made from 100% Pinot Gris!

...It would be strange to have a Champagne made from 100% Pinot Gris!

I did a search for "Sparkling Pinot Gris" and found there are producers in Oz, NZ and Oregon. There are also several producers of Sparkling Pinot Grigio.

...It would be strange to have a Champagne made from 100% Pinot Gris!

I did a search for "Sparkling Pinot Gris" and found there are producers in Oz, NZ and Oregon. There are also several producers of Sparkling Pinot Grigio.

But I don't think they'd taste anything like what you would expect from Champagne, which was the point I was trying to make.

Hello Howie,
While most of the ‘Grande Marques’ blend all three primary grapes allowed, most of my favorites contain very little or NO Pinot Meunier. It’s grown mostly in the Vallee de la Marne because of its tolerance to frost because of late bud-break and early ripening. As you get south to the Aube you find almost no Meunier and mostly Pinot Noir. My favorite Champagnes come from this region and my 1st place wine is from 100% Pinot Noir. Having said this… I can see Pinot Gris or Pinot Blanc working just fine.
Good luck with it,
Gary

Both Aubry and Laherte have made Champagnes that contain small amounts of Fromenteau, or Pinot Gris - not that was able to pick it out in either of those wines. Anyway, I'd certainly recommend the 1998 Aubry Brut Blanc Des Blancs Le Nombre D’Or Sable and the NV Laherte Les Clos to anyone interested.

Egly-Ouriet's Vignes de Vrigny and Servaux Fils' Cuvee Meunier are both very nice Blanc de Noirs made with 100% Pinot Meunier.

The name of "Les Clos" of Laherte-Frères is no more allowed - not all of the vineyards in this case have the walls around, that is why the name is no more available. Actually the name of this cuvée is "Les 7" pointing out the 7 varieties are part of this blending. In any case, the part of the 3 main varieties is 50%, another 50% are the rare four varieties (10% Fromenteau, resp. Pinot Gris, 8% Arbanne, 17% Pinot Blanc, 15% Petit Meslier).
As far as I know, this is the only cuvée in the whole Champagne containing all the seven varieties - at least my personal friend since many years - Aurélien Laherte - says that. But who knows...