The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

WTN: NEB#3 Report..(very long/very boring)

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

8373

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:01 pm

WTN: NEB#3 Report..(very long/very boring)

by TomHill » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:17 pm

NEB#3 Event

Since 2009, there have been several get-togethers of Calif winemakers who are interested, nay,
passionate, about making Nebbiolo wine in Calif. These first two meetings, labeled NAP (Nebbiolo Advocates
and Producers..a blatant ripoff of ZAP), have been documented in the following two reports:
NAP#1 Event Report: http://www.grape-nutz.com/tomhill/09_8NAP.html
NAP#2 Event Report: http://www.grape-nutz.com/tomhill/11_8NAP.html
This group is a pretty rag-tag/seat of the pants group of winemakers who have no real organization.
KenMusso, Nebbiolo grower in ElDorado and winemaker for DueVigne, has been sort of the titular head.
For this yr's event, DawnMartella, winemaker at KarmereWnry up in Amador's ShenandoahVlly, agreed to host
the get-together. In organizing this yr's NEB#3, one of the intents was to bring greater attention to the
event by including more of the Calif Nebb producers and inviting some media reps to this opportunity to taste
probably the largest collection of Calif Nebbs ever under one roof. A modest fee of $25 was paid by the
participants to help defray costs. For Nebb producers who were unable to attend
in person, they were invited to send their Nebbs up to Dawn to include in the tasting. About 6 producers took
advantage of this opportunity.
The event was held June 21 from 1:00pm-5:00pm on the outside patio behind the Karmere tasting room; a
beautiful venue with an expansive view towards the South across the ShenandoahVlly. A large tent was erected
to protect from the heat and sun. Weather conditions were near perfect; modest temperatures (in the 80's) and a
gentle breeze.
After KenMusso's welcome and brief introductions of the attendees, Darrell Corti gave his presentation;
followed by a short comparison of Piedmont/ElDorado Nebbiolo growing conditions. The wines were then opened
and attendees were given free rein to help themselves to the Nebbs. At the completion of the tasting part,
Dawn/Karmere Winery (with some help from her husband, Dick) provided a simple buffet of herbed potato salad,
grilled local sausages (Swingle Meats/Jackson), a mushroom and goat cheese tart and artisanal breads and
olive oil for those present; with the opportunity to revisit some of the wines.


Recorded Attendees:
Ken Musso/Due Vigne/Eldorado
Francis Mahoney/Mahoney Family Vnyds/Carneros
Darrell Corti/grocer/Sacramento
Mike Dunne/Sac Bee/A Year In Wine blog
Dawn Martella/Karmere/Amador
Ken Zinns/Harrington Wines/SanFrancisco
Al Osterheld/enthusiast/Livermore
Jarue Manning/UC Davis microbiology professor
Emilio Castelli/GreenVlly grower & winemaker/Castelli Vnyds
Paul Bush/Summu Kau Vnyd/MadronaWines/Eldorado
Pooch Pucilowski/University of Wine/head of Calif State Fair wine judging/Lodi
Ted Rieger/wine journalist/Vnyd & Wnry Management
Dick Martella/grower/Fiddletown
Todd Pickens/owner/Karmere
Gary Grant/Frog's Tooth Wnry/Calaveras
Steve Honeychurch/grower/ValleyOaksVnyd/Amador
Chris Leamey/Terra d'Oro/Amador
Ben Falk/grower/Safari Estate/Amador
Angelo Codevilla/grower/Amador
Mike Long/Amador Cllrs
Shane Vetter/FresnoState student
Louis Baldwin/FresnoState student
Sandro Tamburin/UCDavis student/Trieste
Gerald Stidham/marketing director/ElDorado Grape Growers Assoc

As sort of a keynote/kickoff speaker, DarrellCorti was asked to address the group on the history of Nebbiolo,
both in Italy and in Calif. This is an attempt to capture some points of Darrell's talk:

DarrellCorti Comments (with some of my additions):
Montevina planted 80 vines of the NebbioloRose (Fino) clone (only one available from FPS back then) in 1971.
The CortiReserve Nebbiolo '80 LastHarvest, from the remaining 40 vines, was the last Nebb from Montevina afore
those vines were ripped out. (Interestingly, Montevina/Terra d'Oro is returning to Nebb and ChrisLeamey showed
a barrel sample).
A CharlesKrug Nebbiolo took first in the State Agricultural Fair (predecessor to the Calif State Fair) in the
late 1800's. There are indications that Haraszthy brought the first Nebb to Calif in the 1860's. (One writer asserts
that Nebbiolo was first brought to Calif by John T. Doyle/Cupertino in 1882). In 1885, when UCDavis was still working
out of Berkeley, Hildegard panned Nebbiolo for it potential in California because high acid/high tannin/low color would
not make for a quality wine.
Darrell recounted some of the history of Nebbiolo in Italy. It goes back to the 12'th century, with Freisa (a
variety for which some of us think should be getting a lot more attention in Calif) being one of Nebbiolo's parents.
He recounted some of the kings in Italy and how those machinations helped Nebb make its way to the OltropoPaavese
and also to Sardinia (the one Nebb from Sardegna we tried didn't speak very strongly of Nebb...at least as I know it).
Darrell described how difficult Nebb is to grow in Barolo/Barbaresco and how it must often be harvested in the fog
because it is so late ripening. They cannot make B/B every year in Piedmont and in 1972, all the B/B was declassified.
Early B/B were much different back then thay are now. They were usually red/dark and sweet. Oftentimes, they had to
make it as a Spumante.
He suggests that if they have to struggle with Nebbiolo in the Piedmont, small wonder that they also find it
difficult in Calif. He asserts that we will never make B/B in Calif and that they should abandon that as a
holy grail...let them make B/B in Piedmonte. Because of Nebbiolo's strange phenolics, it suggests that they should
make Nebb in Calif more like PinotNoir. (Alas, many consumers of Calif wine have been taught by the wine critics to
equate deep color with high quality...a problem for Nebb in Calif, perhaps). So his message was that producers
of Nebb should make a new product, not try to replicate B/B. And there is no reason that it cannot be a very good/great
new product (to which I would strongly agree. Calif achieved success...and great success I think...with PinotNoir
when they quit trying to make RedBurgundy).
Darrell then made reference to a consultant in Piedmonte, Donato Lanati, as the author of the definitive book on
growing Nebbiolo and making the wine in B/B. References are provided below.
And then things got really interesting as he segued into discussing the polyphenolics of Nebbiolo. Nebbiolo has
particularly high levels of the anthocyanins malvidin and peounidine. It is a relatively easy test to run the
anthocyanin profile of a Nebbiolo wine and identify whether it's had other grapes blended in. This weird anthocyanin
profile for Nebbiolo is the prime reason the grape gives lightly colored/orangey wines. Many of the anthocyanins can
be lost to oxidation during the winemaking process, especially by pumpovers. For that reason (easily detected), a lot
of other varieties that used to be planted in B/B to boost the color of B/B have been abandoned.
He cited Neiretta or Neiretta Cunese as one such variety that was commonly used. This is a variety that Darrell
says is autochthonous to the Cuneo/Torino/Canavese areas to the North. (Interestingly, several references I have
indicate Neiretta Cunese to be a synonym for Syrah. That would be very interesting if the Italians in B/B used to
use Syrah to boost the color of their wines...a practice the French, of course, would never stoop to do!!)
Darrell then went north to the Valtelline/Lombardy, where they grow a different clone of Nebbiolo (Chiavennasca).
The viticulture there he described as "heroic". (Pictures of those vnyds are some of the most spectacular I've ever
seen). He then described Nebbiolo viticulture in Carema, the northernmost growing area of Nebbiolo in the Piedmonte.
The vines are grown up on a pergola and must be irrigated because the sunlight reflecting off the snow on the adjacent
mountain slopes would fry the tender pedicoles. (LuigiFerrando, a NeilRosenthal import, is probably the most famous
Carema producer in this country. Alas, hard to find. They have only 40 acres of Nebb planted in Carema, of which
only 6.25 is controlled by Ferrando. Where's all the rest of that wine going? Is it of any merit?)
(WebSite: www.ferrandovini.it/it/azienda.html)
(NB: These are my own transcripts/notes of Darrell's exposition on Nebbiolo. Any errors are most assuredly mine.)

Darrell's references:
1. The informazione from Donato Lanati is titled: Composizione polifenolica caratteristica della cultivar nebbiolo e
dei vini che ne derivano. His company is called ENOSIS srl.
2. There is another title, this from the 5th Italian Conference on Food Science and Technology, (CISETA), Sept. 2001,
proceeding available in Italian with English summaries. Chirotti Editori, info@chirottieditori.it The one most
interesting to the NEBs is "Anthocyanins evolution during nebbiolo winemaking. The authors are V.Gerbi, G.Zeppa,
L.. Rolle, from the Universita degli Studi di Torino, Dipartimento Valorizzazione e Protezione delle Risorse
Agroforestali, settore di Industrie agrarie, Grugliasco (TO)



At the completion of Darrell's presentation, KenMusso gave a short presentation on comparison of climate, temperatures,
harvest dates, etc between his growing conditions in ElDorado and the B/B of Piedmont. Alas, I was busy opening up
the older wines Darrell had brought; so didn't take any notes.




I did not have time to taste thru all the Nebbiolos being poured. Below are some TN's that I did manage to try.
I harvested some 8-10 nearly full btls to take with me an retry over the next few days out on the road. By and large,
most of them held up very well in a styro shipper w/ no corks in them. Most of the older Nebbs and the Italian ones
were Darrell's contributions.

TomHill TN's:
1. Montevina Nebbiolo (13%) 1975: Very light somewhat orange/brown color; rather charred/oak/smokey dried rose petal/
floral/fragrant/perfumed somewhat aged/pencilly quite attractive nose; slight dried out/tannic light floral/dried
rose petal bit tart flavor; shows some nice old Nebb floral/aromatics overlaid w/ some charred oak.
_____________
2. Gaja Barbaresco 1970: Very light orange/brown color; beautifil perfumed/aromatic/coffee/complex/dried rose petal
quite complex classic old Nebb nose; bit tart slight tannic/herbal very perfumed/aromatic dried rose petal/violets
slight dried out smooth/delicate/elegant quite complex flavor; very long/lingering floral/aromatic/dried rose petals/
violets finish that goes on & on; starting to dry out a bit but a beautiful classic old Piedmontese Nebb.
_____________
3. Marjerum Rosso Riserva (66% Nebbiolo/34% Barbera) 1993: Some murky/browning light color; rather herbal/leafy/
compost pile dusty/earthy quite strange nose; rather dried out/tannic herbal/leafy/dusty/earthy nearly dead
flavor; on its last legs; does not speak of Nebbiolo in any way.
_____________
4. Ferrando Carema (14.5%) 2005: Med.light color; lovely fragrant/perfumed bit tarry/licorice/coffee slight floral/
lilacs complex nose; tart rather tannic/lean/hard perfumed/smokey/coffee rather tarry/licorice light floral flavor;
towards the pungent/tarry side of Nebb; lovely complex wine that needs age.
_____________
5. Propertia Sperino Lessona 2006: Med.light color; strong rather tarry/licorice/pungent light floral/lilacs very
attractive nose; bit tannic/hard/bitey rather pungent/licorice/road tar light floral/lilacs rich flavor; needs
age but has a richness not usually found in B/B Nebbs.
_____________
6. Karana Nebbiolo IGT: Colli del Limbara Sardegna (13%) Cantina Gallura: Dark color; rather earthy/dusty somewhat
grapey/strawberry slight pungent/tarry nose; fairly soft grapey/earthy/dusty slight tannic slight pungent flavor;
almost speaks like Grenache than Nebb; rather uninteresting if rustic/coarse.
_____________
7. Nino Negri Sfursat (15%) 2006: Med.dark color; strong pungent/licorice/grapey slight floral/lilacs rather perfumed
slight earthy/mineral rather ripe nose; fairly tart smokey/pungent/coffee/licorice/ripe bit tangy/grapefruity
very slight floral/lilacs flavor w/ fair tannins; lots of rich/ripe/grapey character and shows mostly the pungent/
tarry side of Nebb.
_____________
8. Marchesi di Gresy Martinega DOC: Nebbiolo Langhe 2007: Med.light color; very attractive fragrant floral/lilacs/perfumey
light pungent/road tar quite aromatic nose; lovely fairly tart light tannic/bitey very attractive perfumed/floral/
lilacs/violets flavor; needs several yrs; a really lovely aromatic/perfumed Nebb that doesn't have the hard/tannic
bite that many young B/B show.
_____________
9. Renwood Nebbiolo (15%) 1993: Loose cork that punched down into the btl; Med.color bit murky color w/ some bricking;
rather wet dog fur/tired bit oxidized slight blackberry/Amador nose; tart rather tannic/dried out no fruit some
oxidized flavor; pretty much dead & gone.
_____________
10. WindGap Nebbiolo Glenrose & LunaMatta vnyds/PasoRobles 2006: Med.light color; some herbal/leafy spicy/cinammon/
smokey light fragrant/floral nose; tart/acid bit tannic/bitey light fragrant/floral/violets some pencilly/oak
flavor; a rather pretty wine w/ nice aromatics that needs more time.
________________________________________
11. Castelli Nebbiolo SisquocVnyd/SantaBarbaraCnty (Michet clone; 14.5%) 2008: Med.light color; slight herbal light
lilacs/floral attractive nose; tart/lean/tannic tangy/grapefruity some earthy/dusty light floral violets flavor;
pleasant enough but doesn't really sing.
_____________
12. Castelli Nebbiolo Estate/GreenVlly/RRV (13.3%) 2007: Med.light color; lovely floral/lilacs/violets light pencilly/
oak quite perfumed nose; tart bit lean/tannic quite floral/lilacs/violets slight pencilly/oak flavor; really
attractive perfumed/aromatic side of Nebb.
_____________
13. Madrona Nebbiolo ElDorado 2002: Med.light color w/ no bricking; rather dusty/herbal/earthy some old Nebb/floral/
dried rose petal/fragrant/floral; fairly strong earthy/dusty some perfumed/old Nebb/floral/dried rose petals slight
herbal flavor; starting to show some very nice old Nebb aromatics.
_____________
14. Madrona Nebbiolo ElDorado 2009: Med.color; strong earthy/dusty/mushroomy/truffle slight floral/lilacs nose;
strong earthy/dusty/mushroomy some hard/tannic fairly tart very light floral/lilacs flavor; clearly needs age;
shows more ElDorado earthy terroir than Nebb fruit.
_____________
15. Felice Bonardi Nebiolo Spumante NV (ca. 1970): Very dark/murky brown PX color; earthy/damp basement/decaying
vegetation/wet leaves pile nose; sour oxidized/maderized earthy/decaying vegetation flavor; totally shot; cork
not tight and no effervesence.
_____________
16. toccata Nebbiolo SantaBarbaraCnty (14.5%) Lucas & Lewellen; Winemaker: MeganMcGrath 2008: Med.color w/ slight
bricking; rather tarry/earthy/smokey light floral/lilacs/perfumed slight alcoholic nose; soft rather tannic/bitey
earthy/tarry/pungent/dusty slight floral/lilacs rather hard flavor; med.long soft hard/tannic earthy/dusty/pungent/
tarry bit rustic finish w/ light floral fruit; reminds of a Valtelline Rosso w/ its earthy/granite character.
_____________
17. UrbanLegend Nebbiolo WindremRanch/LakeCnty (12.8%) Grower: David Weiss; Winemakers: Steve & Marilee
Shaffer/Oakland 2009: Strange light brownish/orange color; light pencilly/oak quite perfumed/floral/lilacs bit earthy/
smokey/dusty attractive nose; quite tart rather hard/tannic/bitey light floral/lilacs/perfumed some tangy/grapefruity
flavor; med.long tangy/tart somewhat floral/lilacs/aromatic rather hard/tannic slight buttery finish; needs more age;
color seems prematurely aged but it has the lovely aromatics that suggest an older Nebb.
_____________
18. Harrington Nebbiolo PasoRobles (40% LunaMatta/60% AJB vnyds; 14.1%) 2009: Med.light color w/ slight bricking; quite
perfumed/fragrant/lilacs/floral/cherry light pencilly/toasty/oak almost cherry/Pinotish nose; tart slightly tannic/
bitey perfumed/floral/lilacs/bright some pencilly/toasty/oak rather spicy/cherry slight earthy flavor; long light
pencilly/toasty/oak bit tannic/hard/bitey tart some floral/lilacs/cherry finish; lots of bright cherry character;
tastes like a Nebb made by a Pinot producer; manages to avoid the jammy character of many Paso reds.
_____________
19. Novy Nebbiolo StolpmanVnyd/SantaYnezVlly (14.1%) 2007: Med.light color; rather toasty/pencilly/oak/smokey pretty
floral/violets slight pungent/licorice nose; soft round/elegant rather floral/violets light pungent/licorice some
pencilly/toasty/oak slight tannic flavor; med.long spicy/floral/cherry/violets light pencilly/toasty/oak slight
bitey/tannic finish; seems to be the best at controlling the hard/bitey tannins of Nebb; somewhat Siduri Pinot
in character but definitely Nebb.
_____________
20. AugustRidge Nebbiolo Estate/PasoRobles (14.7%; 228 cs) 2007: Med.light somewhat orange/brown color; rather ripe
bit jammy/grapey fairly fragrant cherry/lilacs/chocolaty/PR ripe nose; bit tart light pungent/licorice slight
toasty/oak fairly ripe/chocolaty/pungent/licorice slight tarry flavor w/ modest tannins; med.long ripe/grapey/cherry/
chocolaty light floral/dried cherries finish w/ slight tannic bite; on the ripe side which may be why the tannins
are beaten down.
_____________
21. MahoneyVnyds Nebbiolo LasBrisasVnyd/Carneros (13.5%) 2009: Med.dark color; strong perfumed/violets/black cherries
light smokey/oak/toasty/pungent very attractive/perfumed nose; slightly tart light pungent/smokey/oak/toasty rather
perfumed/violets/black cherry/cherry cola fairly smooth/balanced/lush flavor w/ slight tannic bite; long bit tart/
tangy/metallic fairly rich/lush strong violets/floral/black cherry light smokey/toasty/oak finish; rather lush/smooth/
balanced rather floral/black cherry rendition of Nebb; resembles a Valtelline Sfursat most of all.
_____________
22. MahoneyVnyds Nebbiolo LasBrisasVnyd/Carneros (13.5%) 2007: Med.dark color w/ slight bricking; bit riper strong
perfumedcherry/dried cherries/lilacs slight alcoholic slight tarry/licorice less toasty/oak nose; bit softer/
smoother/rounder slight tannic rich/dried cherries/Visciola-like/floral light pungent/smokey/tarry flavor; med.long
bit smoother/softer/rounder/riper dried cherries/black cherries slight licorice/pungent/tarry finish; also much like
a Valtelline Sfursat; these two seem to be the best of all the Nebbs at taming the fierce tannins Nebb can show.
_____________
23. DueVigne Nebbiolo MussoFamilyVnyd/ElDoradoCnty (14.4%; 8% Barbera) 2008: Med.dark color; quite perfumed/lilacs/
bing cherries/Visciola (what the heck is Stella cherries?) cherries/Kansas barber shop hair tonic/perfumey slight
pungent/tarry quite aromatic nose; bit hard/tannic/bitey fairly tart dried cherries/bing cherries/cherry liqueur
light pungent/tarry/licorice slight earthy/granitic/mountain flavor; long rather perfumed/lilacs/bing cherry/
dried cherries slight earthy/pungent/licorice finish; only slight ElDorado/earthy character and lots of perfumed/
dried cherries character; some like a Valtelline Nebb.
_____________
24. DueVigne Nebbiolo MussoFamilyVnyd/ElDoradoCnty (14.4%) 2007: Med.dark color; slightly more licorice/pungent strong
bing cherries/dried cherries fairly floral/lilacs perfumed nose; bit smoother more aged/complex/dried rose petals
strong dried cherries/bing cherries slight pencilly/smokey some hard/tannic/bitey flavor; showing more aged/dried
rose petal character w/ plenty of aromatics but still needs more age.
_____________
25. Karmere Nebbiolo 2008: Very light/orange color; slight floral/lilacs strong pungent/tarry/licorice/Nebb light
toasty/oak rather perfumed nose; tart some tannic/bitey/hard light tarry/licorice/pungent/Nebb slight floral/
strawberry/cherry slight toast/oak flavor; shows more of the tarry side of Nebb and not much of the ShenandoahVlly
briary character; needs some age yet; nicely done Nebb.

Random Thoughts (BloodyPulpit)
1. Nebbiolo is a tough grape, a tough wine. What keeps me going back to Nebbiolo is the perfume of the wine. At its
best, it displays this ethereal aroma of floral lilacs/violets and a pungent tarry character that you find in no
other grape variety; a perfume that, at its best, is unmatched. The Gaja Barbaresco was about as close to perfection
in these Nebbiolos as you can find.
What I find so maddening about the variety is the hard/biting tannins that it so often shows on the palate.
The lovers of Barolo/Barbaresco blithely reject that complaint with a dismissive wave of the hand that you need to
give B/B time for the tannins to age away; that B/B is not a wine that can be drunk young. This is an argument that
I am unwilling to accept. There are other red wines that display strong tannic structures, like CabernetSauvignon.
Yet, in Calif and Bordeaux, they have found the ways to tame those tannins so the wine is not so undrinkable upon
its release. If any NapaVlly Cabernet producer released a wine that was on the palate like most young B/B, they
would be tarred & feathered. The current hot ticket buzzword is to produce wines of "balance". Most young B/B are
notably lacking in "balance". Why is that acceptable for B/B, but not for most other wines? The above diGresy
Martinega showed a "balance" that seems rare in young B/B.
2. So how are the Calif Nebbs doing?? Over the last three yrs of tasting Calif Nebbs fairly extensively, and pretty
regularly from the first Montevinas and MartinBros; I would have to say they're doing pretty good. Is the grape
a failure in Calif?? Hardly... Monktown opinions notwithstanding. Has that breakthrough Calif Nebbiolo been
made that one could truly call "great"?? I don't think so, yet. But I see steady progress towards that goal of a
"great" Nebb being made in Calif. And maybe we may have to redefine what "great" means for Calif Nebbiolo.
All of these Calif Nebbs we tried I thought were good/solid/well-made Nebbiolos. Every one I could drink at
table w/ great pleasure. Most of them seemed to have that pungent/tarry component of Nebbiolo perfume down pat.
If there was any lack, it was that ethereal floral/lilacs/violets aromatic component you find in Italian renditions.
And, just as in Nebbs from the Langhe, the management of the tannins on the palate presents a problem. Though none
of them showed the fierce tannins you get in young B/B. Tasting thru these Calif Nebbs; it would seem that those
winemakers who are Pinot specialists do the best job w/ reining in the hard Nebb tannins.
3. As these Nebbiolo producers have discussed before; Nebbiolo is not going to be the next Merlot craze. It will probably
always remain pretty much a niche market; a wine probably best targeted to Italian restaurants in the USofA.
For the lovers of B/B...those people who think nothing about spending $60-$300 for a Nebbiolo that's excruciatingly
painful to drink; Calif Nebbiolo is probably a wine that they'll never acknowledge anything approaching "greatness".
Calif Nebbiolo producers would be best served by forgetting about those folks. Their target market is probably those
people who are already fans of Calif wines; be it Cabernet, Pinot, or Syrah. They will see a Calif Nebb on a wine
list in an Italian restaurant; or stumble across a Calif Nebb near the Italian section; and be tempted to try it just
to see what Calif can do w/ that grape. It behooves the Nebb producers to make sure what they put in the bottle
is something good enough that they'll be drawn back to try another one. As Darrell asserts; it behooves them to
invent a Calif red wine from Nebbiolo that is not a B/B; to give up on that unattainable goal.
4. There are also some interesting parallels between Nebbiolo and PinotNoir in Calif. Back in the '50's-'60's, PinotNoir
was pretty much just another Calif red wine; playing second fiddle to CabernetSauvignon; which was then pretty much the
king of Calif reds. In the '60's-'70's, those Calif winemakers passionate about PinotNoir were intent on replicating
RedBurgundy in Calif in an attempt to entice those folks paying astronomical sums (like $10-$25/btl) to try the Calif
versions. The ultimate accolade for those Calif Pinots was when some critic described their wine as "Burgundian".
This approach enjoyed some success in getting BurgHeads to at least try Calif Pinot.
But I would claim that Calif did not achieve true success w/ PinotNoir, did not make truly "great" Calif Pinot,
until they abandoned this foolhardy goal of replicating RedBurg in Calif. To make, from Calif Pinot grapes, the best
PinotNoir they could possibly make. And that, I think, is how we got to making "great" PinotNoir in Calif.
Darrell's point about not replicating B/B in Calif is well-taken....to make the best possible wines from Nebbiolo
that we can make. To invent what Nebbiolo can really do in Calif. He's right..you cannot make great B/B in Calif. But
I think you can make "great" Nebbiolo in Calif. We may not know what it will look like yet..but I think it is an
achievable goal.
5. Looking to Italy: This is a rant I've delivered any number of times..but perhaps worth repeating. Those who are
believers in Nebbiolo as a great grape generally look to B/B as the greatest expression of Nebbiolo in the world.
Certainly, most of the great Nebbs I've tried have come from B/B. This Gaja '70 was one such.
But I'm not convinced that B/B is the world's best expression of "great" Nebbiolo. I find that, on a more consistent
basis, many of the really "great" Nebbiolos also come from other areas of Italy. Namely, the Colline Novarese of Northern
Piedmont (Gattinara, Ghemme, Lessona, Carema, etc) and Lombardy, particularly the Valtelline (Inferno, Sassella, Sfursat,
etc). Some of the blends of Nebbiolo w/ other varieties (Croatina, Bonarda, Barbera, Vespolina, etc) are truly "great"
in every sense of the word. Though purists insist that, like PinotNoir, Nebbiolo must be 100% Nebb...the Italian
examples suggest otherwise. Alas, one of the problems is that these wines are nowhere nearly as ubiquitous as
B/B/Langhe; so their greatness often goes unrecognized by many lovers of Nebbiolo.
But I think it would be well advised for Calif Nebbiolo producers to look to these other regions as a guide or
reference point for what they would like to make w/ Nebbiolo in Calif.
6. Where to plant: At this point in time, there is no obvious places in Calif where Nebbiolo should be planted. There are,
obviously, some places where it is too cold to ripen. PaulDraper has two Nebbiolo vines planted up on MonteBelloRidge.
He relates that the grapes on them have never ripened. Yet, right in the heart of Pinot country, GreenVlly, Emilio
Castelli seems to be able to ripen his Nebb.
There are lots of areas in Calif that have rolling hills not so different from the Langhe. If you look to the
mountains, as in Northern Piedmont or the Valtelline, similarities are a lot more limited in Calif. As Darrell pointed
out, growing Nebbiolo in those conditions is a "heroic" effort that probably could not be justified in Calif. The
diurnal cycle in Calif vis a vis Italy is probably another consideration.
Nebbiolo grown in warmer climates seems to accentuate the tarry character of Nebb, maybe at the expense of the
fragrant floral property. But Nick Martin's first Nebbiolo in '82 came from the heart of the SanJoaquinVlly, and
the first Montevina Nebbs came from the rather warm ShenandoahVlly, not to mention the Karmeres; all making strong
statements of Nebbiolo varietal character. So warmer climes obviously can't be ruled out.
And certainly the large lake influence of ClearLake up in LakeCounty suggests Nebbiolo would do well there as well.
Looking to successful Nebbiolo already being grown in Calif; some very good ones have come from StolpmanVnyd in the
SantaYnezVlly and from the PasoRobles area. Even the NapaVlly. The one ParasVnyd Nebb, from up on MtVeeder, that
I've tried some yrs ago, suggests that Nebb would do well there; though that's a pretty high-rent district and
the economics may not justify growing Nebb there.
So....where to plant Nebbiolo in Calif seems to be an open book at this point in time.


Future Directions of NEB
1. At the NAP#2 event a yr ago, KenMusso raised the question about the future of the organization (such as it is).
Because Calif Nebbiolo is pretty much a (very small) niche market, the consensus was that it was never going to
be a large organization along the lines of ZAP or RhoneRangers. Nonetheless, for this yr's event, we made an attempt
to include more of the Calif Nebb producers and invite some media to see what's what w/ Calif Nebb.
It is informative to parallel NEB with ViognierGuild/Hospices du Rhone. Much like NAP#1, the ViognierGuild started
as a (small) group of Viognier producers, Calif and Condrieu, gathering together in Atlanta to meet each other, taste
each other's Viogniers, and share ideas/thoughts on growing and making Viognier. For the next 4 yrs, they then met
annually at various Viognier-producing wineries in Calif. At that point, attendance was limited to winemakers only;
no media types nor consumer types. One of the problems those early meetings had was that most of the Viognier
producers were also making Syrah. So there was, at the tasting part, a few btls of Syrah hidden under the table to
try. Being a fan of Viognier and Rhone varietals, I pleaded to be allowed to attend, but was not permitted to do so.
This is pretty much where the NEB organization now stands. No dues, no membership, no bylaws, no nuthin'. Just fans
of Nebbiolo getting together to talk and taste Nebbiolo.
The event (ViognierGuild) was then moved (permanently) to PasoRobles, renamed Raisen'Rhones (to accomodate other
Rhone varieties), media and consumers invited to attend (which is when I started to attend. They shoulda known that once
I got my nose under the tent flap, the organization was doomed!!). The focus was largely on the biggest tasting in the
world (perhaps after Marche a Vin/Ampuis) of Rhone varietals. Seminars were added on various topics related to growing/
making Rhone varietials. Still, for those first few yrs in Paso, the focus was on a collegial gathering of Rhone-style
winemakers, with media and consumers looking over their shoulders. The bulk of attendees were the winemakers,
exchanging ideas and tasting each other's wines; both in the tasting venue and at the seminars. There were always a
lot of probing questions at the seminars from fellow winemakers in the audience.
Eventually, because it was such a quality event for all, winemakers and consumers, attendance grew and the
focus shifted from a collegial gathering of winemakers talking their craft to a "Rhone Event", where the focus was
on getting Rhone varietals in front of the public. That is to say, a way of marketing their Rhone varietals. The
winemakers started to drop out of the event (because the collegial interchange of ideas was no longer there)
and HdR became simply a congregation of RhoneHeads to market Rhone varietals to. That, IMHO, marked the eventual
(presumably) demise of the ViognierGuild/HdR; though the event, to the very end this year, was a quality event for
those interested in Rhone varietals. Though the HdR organization has taken a new direction (apparently), I suspect
the organization will falter and eventually close up shop. It was a great 20 yr run.
Whether NEB will follow this same trajectory; who's to know?? Because the market for Calif Nebb is so small (for
the present), I don't see the event/organization going down this same path. I, for one, certainly hope not.
2. Venues: Thus far, NEB has been sort of an itinerant event...shuffling from one wnry to the next to show off the
goods. I would suggest that this is the best modus operandi for the group; so that the event and the variety doesn't
get identified with one single area in Calif; unlike Barbera. This would seem to also promote inclusivity for NEB.
There has been some suggestions that next yr's event be held in PasoRobles, where several Nebb vnyds & winemakers
are located.
3. Logo: God forbid that NEB gets into marketing T-shirts w/ the NEB logo. But should that happen, the logo that I see
in my mind is this little ole winemaker banging his head against the end of a wine cask, labeled Nebbiolo on the
side.."Kerthunk..kerthunk..kerthunk". Seems to fit where the market is right now.


Published media stories:
MikeDunne: http://www.ayearinwine.com/2012/06/nebb ... -wall.html
W&V: http://www.winesandvines.com/template.c ... e%20Notes&


And Just A Thanks
This event would not have flown w/o all the work behind the scenes of KenMusso. And certainly DawnMartella (and Dick)
put in many hours on arrangements for hosting the event at Karmere. KenZinns was also a big assistance in connecting
with many of the other Nebbiolo winemakers and suggestions for improving the event. And, as his presence always lends
a vast wealth of information and education; Darrell Corti's presentation was the high point of the day for me. His
mentorship over (egads) 40 yrs, on wine and many other subjects, has been nonpareil. These people were all a genuine
pleasure to work with and made things so much easier.

Tom
no avatar
User

Ian Sutton

Rank

Spanna in the works

Posts

2558

Joined

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:10 pm

Location

Norwich, UK

Re: WTN: NEB#3 Report..(very long/very boring)

by Ian Sutton » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:01 pm

A fascinating read Tom.

I like your reference to northern Piemonte nebbiolo (including blends) as great examples of Nebbiolo that point to the opportunities of nebbiolo outside the straitjacket of the perceived leading style. 40-50 years ago, there was much less of a difference in perceptions of quality, and there are plenty of older Gattinaras etc. that have carried 40-50 years with plenty still to give. However as world focussed on B/B, the money came in to support work in the vineyard, in the cellar and to support wider marketing/distribution. Contrast that with G/G where following a severe frost decades ago, many vineyards went out of production and now the smaller wine region struggles to get the 'airtime' to make it's name. Ambitions too have to be limited, when the average price of a bottle of Ghemme might be €12, vs. triple that in B/B.

... but coming back to that wonderful point, the regions of Boca, Lessona, Fara, Ghemme, Gattinara, Sizzano, Maggiore and Valtellina should be essential tasting for nebbiolo producers wondering what their vineyards might produce. They might be more like these, or perhaps even more like the sfursat/sfursato style from Lombardia. Dessert versions are certainly worth some though as well, though I presume that botrytis is effectively a non-starter due to those thick skins!

Likewise trying suitable blending grapes could lead to interesting results. Vespolina seems to work well in Ghemme, despite it being just as tannic, yet without the aromatics of nebbiolo.

Your challenge on tannins has certainly been taken up with gusto by the more 'modernistic' producers in Barolo (and Barbaresco), with one of their aims being to give earlier appeal, yet aspirationally not to lose the longevity or appeal. Time is bringing moderation on all sides of a debate that got a little too dogmatic a while back. FWIW I happily accept brusque tannins in youth, for what emerges in great age, though this can make middle-aged B/B a little hit & miss. We'll see whether the shortened macerations/roto fermenters still allow for wonderful wines in old age, but I'm still wary of excessive barrique influence - that rusn the risk of being like a lady wearing an under-stated but appealing perfume, but then when she speaks she has smoker's breath.

regards
Ian
Drink coffee, do stupid things faster
no avatar
User

Andrew Bair

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

929

Joined

Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:16 pm

Location

Massachusetts

Re: WTN: NEB#3 Report..(very long/very boring)

by Andrew Bair » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:44 pm

Hi Tom --

Thank you -belatedly - for the Nebbiolo report. I've always wondered if this is a grape that California would eventually "get right".

Anyway, I have been quite impressed by the 2007 Marchesi di Gresy Barbaresco Martinega. I really liked the finesse and balance when I tried it last year. Considering that is sells for under $50 over here, it is a great value in Barbaresco as far as I am concerned. I am also more inclined to try more from Marchesi di Gresy now - although Martinega is unquestionably one of the greatest crus of Barbaresco, this is not a producer that I have much experience with yet.

Never seen a Nebbiolo from Sardinia. Then again, given that their best-known producer is the international-leaning, albeit high quality, Argiolas, I am not surprised that others would try to make their name off of grapes that are not necessarily native to their island. If Argiolas didn't have a (frequently) great value Vermentino; and a couple of highly regarded, modern-leaning red blends (Turriga and Korem), I doubt that this island would get much attention from Italian wine aficionados and importers.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, APNIC Bot, ByteSpider, ClaudeBot, FB-extagent, Google AgentMatch, LACNIC160, Ripe Bot, TikTok and 5 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign