New Developments in Enology- Weird Science

Interesting stuff. Someone will get rich selling all of these doohickies. In this case, I think it's viewed as an alternative to cold-soaking. Here's the abstract from the current issue of AJEV:

Enhanced Extraction of Phenolic Compounds from Merlot Grapes by Pulsed Electric Field Treatment
Cristèle Delsart1,*, Rémy Ghidossi1, Christian Poupot1, Céline Cholet1, Nabil Grimi2, Eugène Vorobiev2, Vladan Milisic1 and Martine Mietton Peuchot1
+ Author Affiliations

1Université de Bordeaux, USC œnologie INRA/EPB/UBS, ISVV, Faculté d’Œnologie de Bordeaux, 210 chemin de Leysotte, CS 50008, 33882 Villenave d’Ornon, France
2Université de Technologie de Compiègne, Département de Génie Chimique, Unité Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable, Centre de Recherche de Royallieu, B.P. 20529-60205 Compiègne, France
↵* Corresponding author (email: cristele.delsart@etud.u-bordeaux2.fr)
Abstract
The objective of this investigation was to study the influence of pulsed electric field application on fermentation process and wine characteristics. Investigations were related, in particular, to the effects of pulsed electric field pretreatment (500–700 V/cm) of grapes with a short treatment duration (40–100 ms) on the evolution of color intensity, anthocyanins, and phenolic content during the alcoholic fermentation of Merlot grapes and seven months after bottling. The kinetics of the extraction of valuable compounds during the vinification stage was established. Sensory analyses of untreated wines were compared to those of pulsed electric field-treated wines. These results showed that the permeabilization of Merlot skin by a pulsed electric field treatment resulted in increased extraction of polyphenols and anthocyanins. Pulsed electric field of moderate intensity and short duration accelerated the flow kinetics of phenolic compounds through the cell membranes. Compared to the classical process, pulsed electric field treatment has the advantage of nonthermal selective extraction (<5°C) involving no loss of product quality. Phenolic compounds have an important role in enology owing to their contribution to the sensory properties of wine and to their participation in various phenomena during the vinification and aging processes. Sensory analysis indicated that pulsed electric field treatment contributes to the enhancement of the sensory attributes of wine. This technique seems to be an interesting alternative to current prefermentative techniques.

Interesting, but I don't really see winemakers dumping their pectinase in favor of a pulsed electric field generator. Call me a cynic, but this paper seems to be more a curiosity than a practical breakthrough.

Mark Lipton

Interesting.
Based on the abstract alone - it seems they indeed check that no overall heating occurs due to the electric field.
However, I wonder whether-
(a) they checked that no local heating occurs in the proximity of the electrodes
(b) they checked that the electric pulses and/or local heating cause a stirring/mixing effect to the juice and skins

Both could explain the results in ways unrelated to the electric field.
In addition, it isn't clear from the abstract whether any analytic measurements are done (i.e. GCMS, absorption, etc...) other than sensory analysis. I'm not familiar with the subject but I believe parameters such as color and phenol concentration are rather easily measured in the lab.
Perhaps this is described/discussed in the body of the paper, and it sounds like an interesting work either way

Hi Mark,

Interesting, but I don't really see winemakers dumping their pectinase in favor of a pulsed electric field generator. Call me a cynic, but this paper seems to be more a curiosity than a practical breakthrough.

Mark Lipton

Being an author of a couple of papers (not related to wine) I always remember the story of J.J. Thomson the discoverer of the electron. When asked by the media "so... what's it good for?" he answered it's probably good for nothing. To me, this shows that you can never know when something would turn out extremely useful - so there is value in scientific publications without a direct application for the foreseeable future...

Just my two cents,
Lior

Do you suppose AliceF***ing would approve of this?? Methinks not.
Tom

Do you suppose AliceF***ing would approve of this?? Methinks not.
Tom

Actually a good question I think. Since its not a chemical addition, heck its not even really an addition at all, why would this draw the ire of the natual wine supportes. I don't really pay attention to that stuff but do they include heating or cooling of the must as an unnatural process?

Lior, I have not had a chance to read the full paper yet, so I have no idea whether their method includes control of local temperature, but I would tend to believe it would be a variable which they would have controlled, because presumably, they're not stupid. By the time it gets accepted to a proper peer review journal, such as AJEV, the materials and methods have presumably been properly vetted.

Interesting, but I don't really see winemakers dumping their pectinase in favor of a pulsed electric field generator. Call me a cynic, but this paper seems to be more a curiosity than a practical breakthrough.

Mark, many of us don't use pectinase. Treatment of must for a few milliseconds seems preferable to days of pre-fermentation cold maceration. Perhaps one would run the crushed fruit from the must pump through the equipment on the way to the fermentation tank, subjecting a short chamber to continuous electric pulses. In such a case, it's just another piece of (possibly portable) crushpad equipment.

Being an author of a couple of papers (not related to wine) I always remember the story of J.J. Thomson the discoverer of the electron. When asked by the media "so... what's it good for?" he answered it's probably good for nothing. To me, this shows that you can never know when something would turn out extremely useful - so there is value in scientific publications without a direct application for the foreseeable future...

Lior,
I am also a published author of scientific papers, and I apologize if you read my comment as denigrating the value of the research. Far from it. I was merely opining that I don't see winemakers gravitating to this technology when other, much simpler technology can accomplish much the same. As Craig points out, there may be an attraction for people who don't want to add anything to the wine (a laudable goal). Your Thompson story is a good one, but I also am reminded of the discovery of complex numbers and Fourier series: who could ever have imagined the benefits that would be derived from those discoveries!

Viva basic research!
Mark Lipton

I'd like to know what they propose as the physical mechanism which draws the polyphenols and anthocyanins through the grape skins. Those aren't particularly high electric fields and the molecules in question are polar (not ionic) at best. There doesn't seem to be much of a 'lever', so to speak. The diffusion behavior of polar molecules in aqueous solutions must be a rather well studied phenomena in electrochemistry.

I'd like to know what they propose as the physical mechanism which draws the polyphenols and anthocyanins through the grape skins. Those aren't particularly high electric fields and the molecules in question are polar (not ionic) at best. There doesn't seem to be much of a 'lever', so to speak. The diffusion behavior of polar molecules in aqueous solutions must be a rather well studied phenomena in electrochemistry.

Joe,
I suspect that the mechanism has more to do with plasma membrane lysis than promotion of diffusion. The charged head groups of the lipids composing the membrane will be far more responsive to an external electric field than the anthocyanins and other polyphenolics will be. All one has to do is to compromise membrane integrity and cellular contents will leak out, which is what they want to do.

Mark Lipton

Mark,

Is cell membrane lysis via electric field a well established phenomena? What you say sounds possible if the conditions were severe enough. If one puts a solution containing single cell creatures between electrodes and gives it a 500-700V/cm pulse, the creatures would be killed by cell wall lysis ? I could almost test this one at home!

I am sure all biodynamicists, will be horrified. The ability of strong electrical fields to screw up terrrestrial and cosmic energies is well-known. Even a power line passing over vines will require preps to correct for the untold damage caused.

Mark,

Is cell membrane lysis via electric field a well established phenomena? What you say sounds possible if the conditions were severe enough. If one puts a solution containing single cell creatures between electrodes and gives it a 500-700V/cm pulse, the creatures would be killed by cell wall lysis ? I could almost test this one at home!

Hmm, looking around at a few random papers (I no longer have access to a proper academic library) it seems possible that electroporation of the cell membrane might be possible under these conditions. For some reason, 500-700V/cm struck me as low, but apparently not. It appears that this method is being studied (used?) the food and beverage industry to do things like kill bacteria without excessive heating.

I am sure all biodynamicists, will be horrified. The ability of strong electrical fields to screw up terrrestrial and cosmic energies is well-known. Even a power line passing over vines will require preps to correct for the untold damage caused.

Hi Steve,

Can you explain what you mean by terrestrial energy?

Thanks,
Lior

Mark,

Is cell membrane lysis via electric field a well established phenomena? What you say sounds possible if the conditions were severe enough. If one puts a solution containing single cell creatures between electrodes and gives it a 500-700V/cm pulse, the creatures would be killed by cell wall lysis ? I could almost test this one at home!

Hmm, looking around at a few random papers (I no longer have access to a proper academic library) it seems possible that electroporation of the cell membrane might be possible under these conditions. For some reason, 500-700V/cm struck me as low, but apparently not. It appears that this method is being studied (used?) the food and beverage industry to do things like kill bacteria without excessive heating.

Joe,
What I was proposing is distinct from electroporation, which doesn't permanently compromise membrane integrity (although it may be related in nature to what I was proposing). The electric fields used in the research were smaller but of longer duration than those typically used in electroporation. I am not enough of a biophysical chemist to be able to make more sense than that of it.

Mark Lipton

I am sure all biodynamicists, will be horrified. The ability of strong electrical fields to screw up terrrestrial and cosmic energies is well-known. Even a power line passing over vines will require preps to correct for the untold damage caused.

Hi Steve,

Can you explain what you mean by terrestrial energy?

Like cosmic energy, it is meta physical nonsense and I couldn't start to explain. Sometimes "force" or "forces" rather than "energy" is used by those who seek to explain BD. Try google...?

Although it is the sort of thing you often hear, my explanation was ironic, so don't take it too seriously. But it is a fact that practitioners of BD do not like power lines that run over their crop.

It will disrupt the "life force". Someone was once telling me he used only unprocessed sugar in his coffee, so that it would retain the "life force". California, ya gotta love it. Problem with biodynamics is there is so much money in it. Because of people like the aforementioned.

I am sure all biodynamicists, will be horrified. The ability of strong electrical fields to screw up terrrestrial and cosmic energies is well-known. Even a power line passing over vines will require preps to correct for the untold damage caused.

Steve,
JohnAlban has these big power lines running right across the top of his vnyd. Probably about 150' above the top-most part of his vnyd.
Last time I walked the vnyd w/ John, the vines looked pretty healthy. And his wines tasted awfully danged good.
Could you describe the symptoms John should be looking for in his vines for this damage. At the rate he charges for his wine, he can
easily pay for the replacement of these power lines.
Does talking on his cell phone out in the vnyd also inflict dammage?? Does BobLindquist, located about a half mile across the road from these power
lines, and who farms Sawyer-Lindquist Vnyd BD, be altering his preps??
Just sorta curious.
Tom

It will disrupt the "life force". Someone was once telling me he used only unprocessed sugar in his coffee, so that it would retain the "life force". California, ya gotta love it. Problem with biodynamics is there is so much money in it. Because of people like the aforementioned.

Yeah, I remember being unemployed several years ago and picking up a salad at Whole Foods (the salad bar was only $3.99/lb. then, so mesclun mix was cheaper from the bar than buying it in the produce section...). While waiting in line and dourly reflecting on the impending exhaustion of my savings, the guy in front of me is buying a few tiny bottles containing homeopathic remedies (for colds, allergies, etc.). This is basically water, except that his tab was around $100. Made me very sad for the rest of the day; had to ask myself why I didn't find a way to rip off gullible people.....

Tom - I get the impression you did not read my previous post in this thread. If you really want to know more, ask Demeter. They write about powerlines in section E2 (p21) of this document:
http://demeter-usa.org/downloads/Demete ... andard.pdf

It will disrupt the "life force". Someone was once telling me he used only unprocessed sugar in his coffee, so that it would retain the "life force". California, ya gotta love it. Problem with biodynamics is there is so much money in it. Because of people like the aforementioned.

California? LOL. In my killing time "hobby" of "traveling" via Google Streetview, it seems that every high street or Rue Grande in France and the UK has pharmacies promoting the utter nonsense which is "Homeopathy". So don;t be dissin on California, my man. Much of this stuff comes from Merrie Olde England anyway!

Tom - I get the impression you did not read my previous post in this thread. If you really want to know more, ask Demeter. They write about powerlines in section E2 (p21) of this document:
http://demeter-usa.org/downloads/Demete ... andard.pdf

Steve,
Thanks for the link. I did read your comment earlier on, in fact.
The article makes for interesting reading. Can't say I understand a lot of it, but, then, I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box, either.
A few random comments:
1. The basic premise of DemeterCertified (here I am using it in a sense that does not strictly mean Steiner-based BioDynamics) is to make the
DC unit independent of outside inputs. One of the focuses of DC entities is the use of cow horns buried in the fields. Yet livestock raised on a DC
farm are not allowed to be de-horned...thus forcing the DC farmer to rely on non-DC inputs. Seems a bit contradictory to me.
2. This document is very precise in its specifications in some areas. So many manure units/acre is only allowed to be applied. You cannot have
DC units within 500 ft of GM soybeans w/o testing for GMO. You can have 1.2 LivestockUnits/animal for breeding bulls, 1.0 for cows, 0.7 LU/animal
for cows 1-2 yrs old, and 0.3 LU/animal for calves. It all makes the mind reel.
Yet, on pg.21 you cite, for EMF emissions from power lines, the negative impact and disruption on terrestrial and cosmic energies is an issue the requires
modification of the BD preps. Extremely vague. Are we talking only 60 Hz EMF fields disrupting terrestrial and cosmic energies, or other frequencies in
the electromagnetic spectrum? At what level (milligauss or millivolts/meter) are these EMF strong enough to disrupt the cosmic and terrestrial energies?
If I were a farmer striving for DC, I'd be tearing my hair out over these ambiguities.
3. Apparently Steiner was very much aware of the dangers inherent in GMO, and hence the DC restrictions on this threat. But there are a lot of other real dangers
that it doesn't appear that DC addresses. What about the use of cell phones in DC vnyds?? What about radioactive emissions from atmospheric fallout that
is pervasive throught the world (well...mostly NorthernHemisphere). Should BobLindquist be allowed to be DC in the EdnaVlly, even though the DiabloCanyon
Nuclear Plant is spewing out radiation less than 20 miles away?
4. The DC rules appear to be awash with inconsistencies and arbitrariness. So much so that I would have to label anyone seeking DC to be nuts...or a glutton
for punishment and silly recordkeeping. I would label DC an absolute fraud and a sham.
It appears that the DC organization's only claim to fame is that they've managed to TradeMark the BioDynamics name. They claim to adhere to Steiner's
original teachings, but have gone way beyond them in order to adapt Steiner to the modern world. There is a whole spectrum of people running vnyds
according to good/sound (and there are some) BD principals. But...gawd forbid...if they try to label themselves as BD. The DC folks would be on them
like a pit bull. Maybe some of those folks should challenge the DC organization on the BD trademark. To me, it's sorta analogous (since were talking more
theology than science in this discussion) to the Baptists trademarking the name "Christian". Woe be to the Presbyterians or the Catholics or the Wiccans
if they try to call themselves "Christians".
Anyway....just my feeble thoughts. Thanks for the link, Steve, as it helped my clarify my thoughts on BD. BD may/may not be something to do. DC is a fraud.
Tom

Tom wrote;
Do you suppose AliceF***ing would approve of this?? Methinks not.
Tom

Brain wrote;
Actually a good question I think. Since it’s not a chemical addition, heck it’s not even really an addition at all, why would this draw the ire of the natural wine supporters. I don't really pay attention to that stuff but do they include heating or cooling of the must as an unnatural process?

This could be looked at in two ways- (1) another one of man’s “innovations” (just adding another possible alternative method to the winemaker’s “toolbox”) or (2) another one of man’s innovations to perform something that happens naturally (extraction of all the “goodies” held in grape skin cells) possible in a more “controlled” and maybe even a more “desirable” or more “effective” way.
As mentioned by Joe, Pulsed Electric Field treatment has been around for a while now in the dairy and juice industry used as an alternative to pasteurisation (getting rid of “undesirable’” and “unwanted” microbes) without degrading juice or dairy quality. Only a matter of time before we see it other food industries.

Salute

Tom

From my investigations, the whole world of BD seems to be full of wierdness and inconsistency. The rules are made up as you go along - indeed as I understand it that approach is encouraged. Don't forget that Steiner and his early followers said nothing at all about viticulture.

Incidentally, although the document I linkedto seems to be authoritative, I am not sure if it is current. It is from Demeter USA, and I have not found equivalents for other countries. Irrespective of the details there, I know BD growers are concerned about power lines for some reason.

(The point of me refering to my post number 2 here was to emphasise that I am in no way an apologist for BD. Quite the reverse in fact.)

Steve