2011 Theise German Tasting Thoughts (now with tasting notes)

[David M. Bueker]

Some of my initial thoughts on the 2011 Terry Theise German portfolio. I will try to get more detailed info up this weekend or so, but wanted some basic info out there.

First off, I pretty much only tasted the German wines. I did try a few Champagnes, and a couple of Austrian wines, but the vast majority (96%+) were German.

Most of the wines were 2011. There were some 2010s still available to taste, and so I did. They were fine when tasted in isolation, but when tasted alongside the lusher, lower acid 2011s they often came off as more than a little shrill.

It is a good vintage for dry and dry-ish wines. The lower acids of 2011 were very friendly to these styles. If you like wild, electric wines, 2011 is probably not your vintage. 2011 relates more to 2007 or in some cases 2009 than 2008 or 2010.

Lots of producers made good wines. A few really nailed 2011. Some (e.g. Willi Schaefer) had only a limited number of wines available, so I can really say across the board, but what I tasted was very good.

My favorite producers of those who had a full range of wines on show were:
Meulenhof: the whole range of wines was outstanding, from the very pretty estate Riesling through the supernal Erdener Treppchen Auslese Alte Reben
Donnhoff: Duh! Hermannshohle Grosses Gewachs, Kirschheck Spatlese and Felsenturmchen Spatlese were my favorites
Jakob Schneider: Hermannshohle Spatlese Trocken, Niederhauser Klamm Kabinett and Hermannshohle Spatlese were great. The beerenauslese was otherwordly.

I was also very enthusiastic about:
Leitz: Kaisersteinfels Terrassen (just 2 g/l above trocken - so delicious!!) and Roseneck Spatlese were both out-freaking-standing
Spreitzer: Lenchen 'Rosengarten' Erstes Gewachs, Lenchen Kabinett, Jesuitengarten Spatlese were all so lovely - drink 'em all day long!
Reuscher-Haart: Such consistently pretty wines at such great prices. If you love an elegant Goldtropfchen these are buys!
Selbach-Oster: Duh! Just so consistently excellent across the range. Hard to pick out highlights, although the Rotlay was again supernal. Saar Spatlese is great value.

A few other highlights come to mind: Minges Gleisweiler Riesling Kabinett, Darting Durkheimer Hochbenn and Michelsberg Kabinetts (value!!), Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Riesling Kabinett #16, Loewen Laurentiuslay Spatlese, Strub 'Soil to Soul' is really nice and fine value, Hexamer Rheingrafenberg Spatlese.

More details when (and if) I have time.

Thanks, David.
I hope you have time for more . . .
Best, Jim

Just adding on my broader thoughts here...

I also thought that the 2011s for the most part reminded me of the German 07s - generally ripe, friendly and fruit forward, though lacking that acid edge to take them from good to great. There was no such thing as Kabinett, and I thought the strongest wines were either the trockens/feinherb styled wines, or the bigger sweet wines to make a broad generalization.

Various impressions from the tables/lineups poured:

Mosel:
AJ Adam: Incredibly disappointing. Not a huge sample, mostly at the low end but what I tasted was fairly dull and thick. The Kabinett, which I've loved in some past years, was just boring.
Selbach-Oster: Incredibly consistent again, from the dry wines through the Auslese. The feinherb Riesling, Rotlay and Zeltinger Schlossberg Auslese stood out in particular.
Willi Schaefer: The Himmelreich Kabinett didn't thrill me, but both wines from the Domprobst (Kabinett and Spatlese #10) were excellent, despite being served a bit warm.
Vols: Really intriguing wines. They were challenging to taste, two bottles were a bit warm and most showed quite a lot of sulfur, but I found the wines very nicely balanced with restrained sweetness - stylistically very similar to Peter Lauer (and from the same soil - Ayler Kupp and Schoenfels). Good acidity, refreshment value and freshness. I'll keep an eye out for these.
Meulenhof: Very, very fine wines across the board. The Erdener Treppchen Spatlese #11 (one-star) and the Alte Reben Auslese were both outstanding, and the rest of the wines were wonderful - rich and fruit forward, but perfectly balanced with lots of depth and freshness.
Christoffel: Hit and miss - I liked the freshness and vibrancy in the Erdener Treppchen Spatlese, but the Urziger Wurzgarten Spatlese and Auslese one-star were both completely boring.

Nahe:
Donnhoff: Superb as David said. Both GGs and the Kirschheck Spatlese were outstanding.
Jakob Schneider: Table of the tasting for me (for sweet wines). Liked the Hermannshohle Spatlese trocken and the Kertz feinherb Riesling. The Hermannshohle Spatlese was a fireworks display; exotic, floral and spicy with lots of ripe peach and red fruit. The BA was freaking stellar - incredibly rich, pure and intense with amazing intensity, richness, great balance and a finish that meant I couldn't taste anything else for about 10 minutes afterwards.
Kruger-Rumpf: The Rieslings didn't excite me much, but I found both the Scheurebe Spatlese and Auslese very good. There were a couple of big sweet wines as well - Riesling BA and TBA that were very impressive, but not up to the level of the otherworldly Schneider BA.
Schlossgut Diel: Just tried the Goldloch Spatlese which was its usual self - very opulent, rich and packed with luscious ripe fruit and florality, wonderfully balanced but at twice the price of Schneider/etc, I'm not a buyer.

Rheingau:
Leitz: Excellent and very consistent across the board. The dry wines were very fine, nicely balanced with good richness and depth, and the Roseneck Spatlese was spectacular - by some distance the best Spatlese I encountered at the tasting.
Spreitzer: Up and down for me - I found the trockens a little disappointing, both a little severe, but the Winkeler Jesuitengarten Spatlese was excellent - rich, floral and exotic with good acidity and balance. The '303' Oestreicher Lenchen Spatlese was a little too much - immensely ripe and dense, like a big Auslese but for me lacking the acidity to balance the sheer density and sweetness.

Didn't try much from the Pfalz, just a Muskateller feinherb and Scheurebe from Messmer, both of which were very pleasant but not particularly exciting.

Austria:
Nikolaihof: One of the tables of the tasting for me, though all the wines that really had my jaw dropping were from older vintages. The '11s seemed a bit rich, but the 2010 Im Weingebirge Gruner Smaragd was excellent - incredibly polished, focused and long with lots of green herbal/verdant Gruner character. The 2009 Vom Stein Riesling Smaragd was excellent - vividly stony and saline with very pure, precise fruit flavours and good depth, and the 2008 Steiner Hund is outrageous. Jawdroppingly amazing. The 1995 Vinothek was also very good (though shockingly young and showing barely any development), and I also really enjoyed the 2005 TBA (blend of Riesling, Gruner and various other white grapes around the estate) which had a surprisingly refreshing acid spine beneath all the sweetness and botrytis.
Brundlmayer: The Extra Brut Sekt hurt - I mean HURT to taste. Send that over to the folk who drink old German trockens for the macho factor. The rest of the wines were generally very good; both the 2007 Sekt and the NV Brut Rosé were lovely, and the two older Gruners - 07 Alte Reben and the 08 Lamm - wowed me.
Hirsch and Hiedler were both solid without anything standing out.
Two of the Alzinger Gruners were poured - I was delighted to see the Muhlpoint Federspiel under screwcap, but disappointed to see it had none of that green verdant Gruner character, though it was very elegant. The Muhlpoint Smaragd was a step up, showing more depth and layers - ripe fruit and minerality accented with fresh herbal/vegetal overtones, conveyed with that typical Alzinger lightness.

Couple of other broad vintage generalizations - I'm surprised how little Gruner character a lot of the 2011 GVs showed. I'm a huge fan of the greener bean/vegetal/herbal elements in Gruner, but very few GVs showed that aspect. At every Austrian table I visited, the 2011 Rieslings were much more interesting and enjoyable than the Gruner counterparts.
I also wasn't particularly excited by most of the Champagnes that were poured - the ones with a lot of 2008 juice in the blend all came across with a lot of malic tartness that showed on the back end, and seemed rather severe.

Shortlist of Rieslings I'm definitely looking to buy after that tasting:
2008 Nikolaihof Steiner Hund Reserve
2011 Jakob Schneider Niederhauser Hermannshohle Beerenauslese (and probably some of the Spatlese too)
2011 Meulenhof Erdener Treppchen Alte Reben Auslese
2011 Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Spatlese
2011 Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Kabinett and Spatlese

[David M. Bueker]

Starting to add my notes...more to come later...

2010 Minges Riesling Spatlese Trocken ‘Froschkonig’
Loaded with lemons and herbs. Very minerally. Not austere (notable due to vintage).

2010 Minges Riesling Halbtrocken
Very easy to drink. Quite gentle in palate feel.

2011 Minges Gleisweiler Riesling Kabinett
Peachy fruit. Good acidity. Very fun to drink. I like this a lot.

2011 Minges Gewurztraminer Spatlese ‘Edition Rosenduft’
Spicy and tropical & not particularly sweet. Good.

2011 Willi Schaefer Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Kabinett
Ripe apple & pear fruit. Good structure.

2011 Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Riesling Kabinett #16
More focused than the Himmelreich. Apples and stones! Very good.

2011 Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Riesling Spatlese #10
Similar to the kabinett, but with the volume turned up. Should age very well.

2011 Meulenhof Riesling
Floral. Quite long and minerally. Very good value here.

2011 Meulenhof Erdener Treppchen Riesling Kabinett
Lots going on here. Floral, apples, lemons, spice with very good finishing length. Not too sweet. I like this very much!

2011 Meulenhof Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese
Notably sweet. Round. Quite creamy with a top note of lemons.

2011 Meulenhof Erdener Treppchen Riesling Spatlese
Very strong minerality in this wine. Very well balanced with lots of apple and floral elements. Delicious.

2011 Meulenhof Erdener Treppchen Riesling Spatlese*
Long, long, long. Did I say this was long? A little richer than the basic spatlese, but more intense. Lovely wine.

2011 Meulenhof Erdener Treppchen Riesling Auslese ‘Alte Reben’
Rich but not heavy. Vey clean botrytis. A pure distillation of Treppchen. The back end minerality just powers through.

Overall the collection of wines from Meulenhof was one of the best I have ever had from them, perhaps going back to the amazing 2001s.

2011 Reuscher-Haart Riesling Spatlese Feinherb ‘UberSchwang’
Best wine name of the tasting! Also a very tasty wine with lots of minerality and crisp apple fruit.

2011 Reuscher-Haart Piesporter Riesling
Lightly sweet. Peachy and fresh. Very easy to drink a lot of this, which is good, as it comes in the handy single-serving liter bottle size.

2011 Reuscher-Haart Piesporter Goldtropfchen Riesling Kabinett
White peach, honey, stones – fine balance. Quite delicious.

2011 Reuscher-Haart Piesporter Goldtropfchen Riesling Spatlese
Riper and richer than the kabinett (not shocking), with a great intensity of peach fruit. Very fresh. Wonderful.

2011 von Winning Riesling
Dry, herbal, limes and stones.

2011 von Winning Deidesheimer Paradiesgarten Riesling Trocken
Very fresh and bright. Focused fruit. Refreshing and not at all austere.

2011 von Winning Kalkofen Riesling Grosses Gewachs
Surprisingly light. Floral, grassy, and a leesy/woodsy element from being still a barrel sample

2011 von Winning Pechstein Riesling Grosses Gewachs
Very lemony & fresh. Also has that barrel sample woodsiness. Very good. My favorite of the von Winning lineup.

2011 Dr. Deinhard Ruppertsberger Riesling Kabinett Halbtrocken
Clean, bright, but needs more fruit.

2011 Kurt Darting Ungsteiner Herrenberg Riesling Spatlese Trocken
Salty/stony with some light peach fruit.

2011 Kurt Darting Durkheimer Feuerberg Riesling Kabinett Halbtrocken
Lots and lots of flowers. Quite a bouquet!

2011 Kurt Darting Durkheimer Hochbenn Riesling Kabinett
A little rough on the palate, but very refreshing with lots of peachy and tropical fruit.

2011 Kurt Darting Durkheimer Michelsberg Riesling Kabinett
Better texture than the Hochbenn. Very fine balance with lots of red fruit and flowers. This is a good value pick.

2011 Kurt Darting Durkheimer Hochbenn Muskateller Trocken
Flowers (why did I use that word for the Rieslings when I had Muscat to taste???), ripe fruit. I kept smelling it and then forgot to taste it!

2011 Kurt Darting Ungsteiner Honigsackel Scheurebe Spatlese
Not into the wild, tropical vein, but more in the ripe, pink grapefruit range. There’s some of the Scheurebe herbal elements as well.

[David M. Bueker]

2011 Josef Leitz Riesling ‘Eins Zwei Dry ‘3’
Very dry and stony. Some red fruit.

2011 Josef Leitz Rudesheimer Riesling Trocken
More palate richness, yet quite delicate. Finely honed.

2011 Josef Leitz Rusesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling ‘Katerloch’
Deep, dry peach fruit on a monk’s pallet of stone

2011 Josef Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Kaisersteinfels Riesling ‘Terrassen’
Just barely off dry (apparently about 2 g/l over the limit for trocken), and loaded with berry and peach fruit and a salty, lime-laced mineral base. Delicious!

2011 Josef Leitz Riesling ‘Dragonstone’
Typical Dragonstone in the best sense of the word.

2011 Josef Leitz Rudesheimer Klosterlay Riesling Kabinett
Zazzy! Lots of acidity here.

2011 Josef Leitz Rudesheimer Magdalenenkreuz Riesling Spatlese
Shows soft after the Klosteray. I would rather taste this again on its own terms.

2011 Josef Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese
Wow, what a wine! Persistence and elegance in a package of flowers, fruit and minerals. Does the concept of peach salt make any sense? It should.

[David M. Bueker]

2011 Spreitzer Hallgartener Hendelberg Riesling Trocken
Very fruity – one of the more fruit forward trockens of the day. Very nice.

2011 Spreitzer Lenchen ‘Rosengarten’ Riesling Erstes Gewachs
This was very dark in fruit profile, and had a distinct leesy element that made it a bit hard to judge. I think it is very promising though.

2011 Spreitzer Riesling ‘101’
Only very gently sweet – lots of flowers. Easy drinking.

2011 Spreitzer Oestricher Lenchen Riesling Kabinett
The kabinett I have bought most often over the last 10 years, and so it will be again in 2011. Delicious, peachy, focused – yum!

2011 Spreitzer Winkeler Jesuitengarten Riesling Spatlese
Unless I buy this instead (how about both?!). Stony, spicy (cinnamon?), vanilla lots of drippingly ripe peach. This is an essence of wine without heaviness. Fantastic.

2011 Spreitzer Oestricher Lenchen Riesling Spatlese ‘303’
Not unlike the Jesuitengarten, but amp up the spice, add some baked apple. Impressive wine, though I prefer the drinkability of the Lenchen Kabinett and Jesuitengarten Spatlese.

[David M. Bueker]

2011 Selbach-Oster Saar Riesling Spatlese
Very fine acidity, lime fruit – classical Saar in style and structure. Excellent value as well. I asked Johannes where the fruit comes from, and as expected he would not say. So I asked his son. He does not know! Anyway, this is well worth buying and drinking, especially, but not only, if you are a Saar fan.

2011 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Schlossberg Riesling Spatlese Trocken
Intensely mineral. Tart citrus and herbs. Severe but stony.

2011 Selbach-Oster Riesling Feinherb
Citrus and salty minerals – Riesling as a margarita

2011 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Riesling Kabinett
Very fine, with good depth. There’s a surprising hint of green apple here (I expected riper fruits).

2011 Selbach-Oster Graacher Domprobst Riesling Spatlese
I always like the Selbach Domprobst wines, and this is no exception, with its floral and peach aromatics. Good balance.

2011 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Riesling ‘Rotlay’
Ripe peach and spice, like an un-cooked compote mixture. Long, with a very bright finish. Delicious as is customary for what is a truly distinctive and (I think) important Mosel wine.

2011 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Schlossberg Riesling Auslese
Rich, spicy and almost a touch thick in texture, but with very nice finishing acids. This is again more toward the green apple, lime end of the fruit spectrum (like the Sonnenuhr Kabinett), but has great richness. Interesting auslese that I like very much.

By the way, the 2011 J&H Selbach Riesling Dry (the fish label) and Riesling 'Incline' are both very nice values for those looking for introductory or just fun quaffing Riesling. Not sure what they retail for, but I would have to expect somewhere in the Dr. L range, and they compare very favorably on a qualitative scale. I especially like the Dry which had very nice fruit.

[David M. Bueker]

2011 Strub Gruner Veltliner Kabientt Trocken
This is getting more Gruner-y every year. Really coming into its own. It now has more of that peppery and cress GV profile than it did in the inaugural vintage several years ago.

2011 Strub Niersteiner Rosenberg Riesling Trocken
Very dry with red fruit. Fairly simple, but refreshing.

2011 Strub Niersteiner Oelberg Riesling Feinherb ‘Roter Schiefer’
Lots of “rusty minerals” (direct quote from my notes page) that really evoke the red soils of the area. Smelling this wine took me back to a day in 2003 when I stood at the red slope of the Rheinhessen with Walter Strub and smelled the rocks. Drink this and then try to deny terroir!

2011 Strub Riesling ‘Soil to Soul’
Juicy citrus fruit and a chalky minerality. I really like the juxtaposition. Very drinkable and fine value here.

2011 Strub Niersteiner Bruckchen Riesling Kabinett
Ever wonder where the chalkiness of the ‘Soil to Soul’ comes from? Well here it is! Lemons on chalk. It’s a sweet kabinett, but the back end minerality gives it so much structure.

2011 Strub Niersteiner Paterberg Riesling Spatlese
Direct, unedited quote from notes again: “Intense, penetrating length. Yum!”

[David M. Bueker]

2011 Kruger-Rumpf Pittersberg Riesling Trocken
Very bright and extremely minerally.

2011 Kruger-Rumpf Pittersberg Riesling Grosses Gewachs
More depth than the “basic” Pittersberg, which means we’re now strip mining for minerals.

2011 Kruger-Rumpf Riesling Feinherb ‘Schiefer’
Spicy, light citrus fruit. Will only show sweetness to those who are extremely sensitive to sugar levels. For others it will just convey some additional richness.

2011 Kruger-Rumpf Munsterer Rheinberg Riesling Kabinett
Green fruits (limes mostly – a little leafy, not unlike a Saar wine) with good but not overly obvious structure.

2011 Kruger-Rumpf Binger Scharlachberg Riesling Spatlese
Juicy the way a ripe orange is juicy, rich and great finishing length.

2011 Kruger-Rumpf Scheurebe Spatlese
Gentle for Scheurebe. Ripe tropical fruits, but also shows a touch of the herbal side.

2011 Kruger-Rumpf Munsterer Rheinberg Riesling Auslese
Fruit salad! Ripe mango and red fruits. Very good, very ripe, and also very fresh and clean. Tasty.

2011 Kruger-Rumpf Scheurebe Auslese
More ripe tropical fruit, maybe even a touch overripe, but then this grapefruit and herbs thing comes up and wakes up the palate. Interesting wine.

Hi David -

Thank you and Salil both for the notes and impressions. You are both quite lucky to have been at this tasting!

It sounds from both of you, as well as Lyle Fass, that this was a breakout vintage from Jakob Schneider. I don't see as many of his wines around as say, Kruger-Rumpf and Hexamer, but definitely hope to find some of his 2011s. Also sounds like a better year than usual for Reuscher-Haart - I sometimes find these wines to be a bit short on acidity for my liking.

For some reason, Atlantic Imports, which distributes Terry's portfolio in Massachusetts, does not handle any of the Dr. Deinhard/von Winning wines. That said, I appreciate your insights on these in case I come across any out of state again.

It sounds from both of you, as well as Lyle Fass, that this was a breakout vintage from Jakob Schneider.

It was outstanding, but not breakout. Schneider has been making superb wines for the last few years. His 2007 Hermannshohle Spatlese is what really got my attention a few years ago, and since then the wines have generally been excellent values with some truly outstanding wines in the portfolio (usually the Hermannshohle Spatlese, and occasionally the odd higher pradikat wine such as the 09 Hermannshohle Eiswein). If you find the wines anywhere, do try them - they're half the price of Donnhoff, and while they're very different stylistically, the wines are superb.

Just adding on my broader thoughts here...

I also thought that the 2011s for the most part reminded me of the German 07s - generally ripe, friendly and fruit forward, though lacking that acid edge to take them from good to great. There was no such thing as Kabinett, and I thought the strongest wines were either the trockens/feinherb styled wines, or the bigger sweet wines to make a broad generalization.

Hi Salil -

Thank you for your writeup as well. I'm glad that you were able to try some of the Vols wines. I read about that estate in the TT catalog, and was intrigued. Am I correct that they share the Vols parcel with van Volxem?

As far as Schneider, I will definitely look out for the Hermannshohle Spatlese.

Anyway, I'm surprised to hear about Adam - would have expected much better there.

Hi David,

I think that we are both probably on the same page about the overall style of the vintage. Nice summary.

I’m glad that you got a chance to try the Minges Froschkönig Riesling. I love that wine (btw, any idea of how much it costs in the states?)

I’ll admit that I initially didn’t like the von Winning wines. They do indeed use new and 2nd year oak to build Riesling and even after a couple of years, the wines have a pronounced oakiness. I think though, that they are wildly different of necessity. Achim Niederberger owns Von Winning/Deinhard, von Buhl, and Bassermann-Jordan (as well as his ‚backyard‘ vineyard Villa Niederberger, where Hans-Günter Schwarz makes some excellent Riesling to my tastes among other wines.). All three of those properties have individual parcels in the same vineyards. To retain the individuality of the estates, a radically different cellar regiment is needed, and so, von Winning uses (sometimes, not always) new oak. I just stopped thinking of them as ‘Riesling’ or Riesling in a context that my mind was comfortable with, and just started thinking of them as very good, well-balanced, delicious white wines –which some of them are.

I haven’t bought a Darting wine in a while. It is just too easy to find wines of similar style, price and quality here (stickies not included.)

Cheers,
Bill

[David M. Bueker]

Bill,

I think the Minges trocken will retail in the $30-$35 range depending on markup.

As for the von Winning wines, I detected a woodsiness, but not woodiness (if you know what I mean by the distinction). I would reject new wood in Riesling pretty much out of hand, and I think Terry Theise would as well.

[David M. Bueker]

2011 Donnhoff Riesling Trocken ‘Tonscheifer’
From the Oberhauser Leistenberg…very floral and very dry. Brings forward the stoniness of the Leistenberg in a way I have not seen with the sweet kabinett.

2011 Donnhoff Roxheimer Hollenpfad Riesling Trocken
This makes some roxi music! It’s very spicy and herbal, with fruit as an afterthought, but such that it seems like it is missing. Very interesting wine.

2011 Donnhoff Dellchen Riesling Grosses Gewachs
Deep and broad. This just expands as it moves across the palate. Hauntingly long finish.

2011 Donnhoff Hermannshohle Riesling Grosses Gewachs
This is more linear than the Dellchen, acting like a sword to the Dellchen’s hammer. Penetrating, bright and just as long a finish. What a great pair of dry wines!

2011 Donnhoff Kreuznacher Krotenpfuhl Riesling Kabinett
Rich and round for kabinett. Juicy.

2011 Donnhoff Norheimer Kirschheck Riesling Spatlese
Cherries!!! Tons of back end minerality. This is just so slurpably good. Whoops…forgot to spit that one.

2011 Donnhoff Schlossbockelheimer Felsenberg Riesling Spatlese ‘Felsenturmchen’
Oh wow! Just wow! Peach, red fruits, warm minerality and just so much penetrating and sustained flavor. This is spellbinding.

2011 Donnhoff Oberhauser Brucke Riesling Auslese
Beautiful. An enveloping, yet gauzy richness with finishing minerality and acidity that wake the soul.

I’m glad that you got a chance to try the Minges Froschkönig Riesling. I love that wine (btw, any idea of how much it costs in the states?)

I’ll admit that I initially didn’t like the von Winning wines. They do indeed use new and 2nd year oak to build Riesling and even after a couple of years, the wines have a pronounced oakiness. I think though, that they are wildly different of necessity. Achim Niederberger owns Von Winning/Deinhard, von Buhl, and Bassermann-Jordan (as well as his ‚backyard‘ vineyard Villa Niederberger, where Hans-Günter Schwarz makes some excellent Riesling to my tastes among other wines.). All three of those properties have individual parcels in the same vineyards. To retain the individuality of the estates, a radically different cellar regiment is needed, and so, von Winning uses (sometimes, not always) new oak. I just stopped thinking of them as ‘Riesling’ or Riesling in a context that my mind was comfortable with, and just started thinking of them as very good, well-balanced, delicious white wines –which some of them are.

I haven’t bought a Darting wine in a while. It is just too easy to find wines of similar style, price and quality here (stickies not included.)

Bill -

I recently saw the Minges Froschkönig (2009?) locally for $42. As far as Darting, they are more of an occasional that a regular buy for me - some are very good values, and others seem lacking in acid for me. I'm not very familiar with their sweeter wines, aside from a Huxelrebe BA that I didn't care for. If anybody ever manages to make a Huxelrebe that doesn't taste flabby to me, I will be impressed.

Interesting to know about the oak with the von Winning wines, which I have not been able to try yet. I have never had an oaked Riesling, and will reserve judgement for now.