WTN: More Italian Varietals...(long/boring)

We tried tonight (6/13/12) some More Italian Varietals:
1. Rosa d'OroVnyds Refosco Calif (13.5%) 2009: Very dark color; some vanilla/toasty/oak lovely plummy/
black cherry/licorice/bing cherry quite attractive nose; slightly tart fairly rich/lush strong black
cherry/plummy/licorice bit herbal/rosemary some tannic/bitey bit toasty/oak flavor; long bit tannic/hard
strong black cherry/bing cherry/plummy/licorice light floral slightly tart rather rich/lush finish; needs
2-4 yrs; a bit too much oak on the nose but OK on the palate; an excellent expression of varietal Refosco
character; really lovely wine. $24.00
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2. VivacWnry Refosco MimbresVlly/NM (106 cs; 5% Merlot/5% Dolcetto/5% CS; 13.5%) Dixon/NM 2007: Dark color;
slight herbal/sagebrush/chamisa/plummy rather earthy light black cherry/plummy slight funky/volatile/
adhesive tape nose; rather thin/lean quite acid/citric/screechy some sagebrush/herbal/chamisa earthy flavor;
med.short thin/acidic/screechy earthy light black cherry finish w/ lighht tannins; speaks mostly of Paola
d'Andrea/Deming red and little of Refosco; disappointing in how it's developed. $19.50 (KK)
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3. Venica Bottaz Refosco IGT: VeneziaGiulia (13%) Dolgena del Collio 2008: Med.dark color; slight pungent/bretty
strong bing cherry/black cherry/licorice/spicy rather fragrant/perfumed some earthy attractive nose; soft/
smooth/lush some bing cherry/plummy/lush fruit slight unclean/earthy/loamy flavor w/ little tannins; fairly long
strong plummy/bing cherry/licorice soft finish w/ little tannins; speaks strongly of Refosco but a bit on the
soft side on the palate and lacks structure; very nice Refosco but overpriced. $43.00 (LCSWS)
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4. Rosa d'OroVnyds Primitivo ClearLake/LakeCnty (9 brls; EG/B; 16.1%) 2009: Dark color; attractive spicy/raspberry/Zin/
lush/blackberry slight herbal/earthy light pencilly/oak nose; soft bright/blackberry/Zin/raspberry slight earthy/
dusty quite attractive flavor; bright/lush/blackberry/spicy/Zin/raspberry light pencilly/oak finish w/ slight alcoholic
heat on the backtaste; a very attractive 4-Square Zin that shows no overripe character and very little of the 16+%
alcohol. $20.00
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5. Cantele IGT: Salento Primitivo (13.5%; www.Cantele.It) Puglia 2008: Med.dark color; somewhat earthy/dusty slight
blackberry/Zin bit overripe/raisened clean nose; soft bit thin bright/clean/blackberry/Zin slight earthy bit
overripe pleasant flavor; med.long bright/blackberry/Zin slight overripe finish w/ little tannins; a little on the
overripe side but surprisingly clean and not a lot of hot-climate character you often get from Zins from Puglia;
a pretty little Zin but not worth the price. $16.00 (KK)
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6. Rosa d'OroVnyds Montepulciano Mt.OsoVnyd/TracyHills/LakeCnty (4 brls; 13.8%) 2010: Dark color; strong grapey/plummy/
earthy bit smokey/pungent bit funky/unusual nose; fairly tart quite grapey/plummy bit spicy slight tannic flavor;
med.long strong grapey/plummy slight tannic finish; a pleasant enough wine but not particularly distinctive; a bit
like a Cabernet, a bit like a Paso Grenache; lacks pizzazz on the palate. $20.00
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7. QuattroMani DOC: Montepulciano d'Abruzzo (13%; www.VelenosiVini.com) GuidiCerreto, Winemaker: AttilioPagli
2010: Very dark color; rather earthy/plummy/grapey bit spicy slight hot-climate/overripe nose; somewhat lush/grapey/
plummy slight earthy/rustic/coarse flavor w/ light tannins; med.short slight tannic rather lush/grapey/plummy slightly
overripe bit rustic/coarse finish; pleasant enough but not very distinctive. $13.00 (SFW&S)
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8. Rosa d'OroVnyds Aglianico Riserva ClearLake/LakeCnty (6 brls; 13.7%) NV: Very dark color; very strong plummy/
licorice/blackberry/boysenberry/Syrah-like bit pungent/toasty/oak some spicy really lovely nose; soft slight tannic
rich/lush/blackberry/licorice/boysenberry/Syrah-like light toasty/oak rich/mouthfilling flavor; very long/rich
blackberry/boysenberry/licorice/Syrah-like slight earthy bit tannic/bitey finish; a big/rich structured wine that
resembles Syrah quite a lot but a bit more earthy/rustic; lovely red at a great price. $20.00
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9. Grifalco DOC: Aglianico del Vulture (14%) Fabrizio Piccin/Venosa 2008: Very dark color; some sour/lactic/milk of
magnesia/Keopectate/strange slight earthy/hot-climate/goat pen bit volatile rather unattractive nose; soft rather
unclean/goat pen/hot climate some lactic/sour milk underacid bit rough/coarse/tannic/rustic flavor; med.short
coarse/rustic/tannic somewhat unclean/goat pen finish; w/ no redeeming features and overpriced. $21.00 (KK)
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10. Rosa d'OroVnyds Sagrantino OsoVistaVnyd/TracyHills/LakeCnty (4 brls; 14.4%; www.RosadOroWine.com) 2010: Light
color; levely very spicy/perfumed/aromatic bright cherry/Pinotish beautiful nose; tart bit lean/tannic lovely bright/
cherry/spicy/Pinotish slight earthy light pencilly/oak flavor; very long lovely bright/vibrant cherry/Pinotish/spicy
light pencilly/oak slight tannic finish; needs several yrs; lighter than expected and much like a Pinot in
character; quite a pretty wine at a very good price. $24.00
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11. Perticaia DOCG: Montefalco Sagrantino (14%) GuidoGuardigli/Montefalco/Perugia 2004: Very dark color; quite unclean/
bretty/fecal/lactic/milk of magnesia rather earthy/sweaty sox some plummy/blackberry/licorice/pungent bit toasty/
charred/oak complex nose; soft rather unclean/bretty/fecal/lactic/sour somewhat tannic/hard bit plummy/licorice/
boysenberry somewhat charred/toasty/oak flavor; long hard/tannic/structured rather bretty/fecal/unclean/lactic some
licorice/boysenberry/plummy charred/oak finish; a big/structured wine more in an international style but way too
unclean and lactic; like an empty carton of milk left on the counter for a month; way overpriced. $55.00 (SFW&S)
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And the usual BloodyPulpit:
1. Refosco: One of my very favorite varieties. Mostly grown in Friuli & Slovenia. For many yrs, it was available
in Calif as simply Refosco, but that variety distributed by FPS was later found to actually be MondeuseNoir.
The recognized superior Refosco is called Refosco dal PeduncolaRosso (Refosco w/ the red pedicale).
According to Pietro's blog (www.rosadorowine.blogspot.com/), which contains a wealth of information, they
have planted Refosco Nostrano (FPS Refosco 03), another recognized clone of Refosco. The Matthiasson's, which
was the first Calif Refosco I've tried, supposedly have the Refosco dPR clone.
The Rosa d'Oro Refosco was easily the best of these three. It spoke strongly of Refosco and was nicely
structured. I found the Venicia was a bit soft & unstructured, though there were some who claimed it to be
much more tannic than the Rosa d'Oro. I simply didn't get that, though.
The Vivac was a big disappointment. I had it on release and thought it quite nice, one of the better
Vivac reds I've had. But it has not evolved well in the btl. The grapes come from Paolo d'Andrea's vnyd down
in the MimbresVlly near Deming. Quite a hot growing area. In addition, the sagebrush and chamisa plants in the
area throw off an oil into the air, much like eucalyptus, that gives the reds from here a distinct musky taint.
I am not sure of the authenticity of Paola's Refosco and he's not responded to my inqueries. The grapes from
here are generally underacid and this wine was probably acidified, overly so, that gives it a rather screechy/
citric quality now with age. Not a good showing.
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2. Montepulciano: Neither of these two Montepulcianos did much for me. They both had a pleasant simple grapiness
to them, but not much in the way of really distinctive character. Preferred the Rosa d'Oro because of its
higher acidity gave more liveliness on the palate. I've only had 4-5 Calif Montepulcianos, with the Mahoney
Estate probably the best of the bunch. The wines seem mostly like "Oakland" wines....there's no there there.
The Italian ones are not a whole lot better and often marred by unclean winemaking.
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3. Aglianico: I've only had a few of these from Calif, but I've been, across the board, rather impressed. They seem
to resemble Syrah somewhat, but w/ a more pungent, bt more brooding character w/o the high-toned notes that
Syrah sometimes displays. The best I've had was the Ryme from KunaMataVnyd in Paso. This Rosa d'Ora, however, is right
up there w/ Ryan & Magan's version. Not yet tried the Giornatta version. OTOH, I've never been impressed w/ those
from Italy. They often show too much hot-climate/goat pen character and are often marred by unclean winemaking.
But I hope to see more Aglianicos come from Calif. Would think it would make good wine in Lodi.
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4. Sagrantino: I've only had a few Sagrantinos from Italy (Caprai, Coltrepone). They struck as pretty big/extracted
reds, mostly in an international style designed to appeal to Monktown attourneys. This was my first Pertacaia.
and seemed to be along those same lines.
This was my first Calif Sagrantino aand quite different from what I was expecting; not at all big & extracted.
I was quite taken by Pietro's rendition of Sagrantino; very perfumed and fragrant and rather light and quite like
a Pinot in character. It seemed to transcend the LakeCnty terroir. Quite a pretty wine.
The only other Calif Sagrantino I know of is the KevinHamel/AliceFeiring cooperative effort. However, I shan't be
trying that wine. Alice watered back the must on that wine to keep the alcohol down and I refuse to drink
any unnatural wines that have been spoofalated and manipulated like that. Plus she priced it at $60+. Uncalled for.
Tom

[Robin Garr]

The only other Calif Sagrantino I know of is the KevinHamel/AliceFeiring cooperative effort.

I just got one in the mail last week from Mosby, Tom. No idea what it's like or any details, although knowing Bill, I assume it's estate-grown. Now you've got me interested ... I'll uncork it when it settles down.

Hi Tom -

Thank you again for the interesting notes. My feeling is that Aglianico really plays well off of volcanic soil - is there any old lava in the dirt around Clear Lake at all? Anyway, the Grifalco has been so-so in my experience. D'Angelo's basic Aglianco del Vulture is much better at a similar price.

As far as Sagrantino, Bea's wines are not at all international in style, although they can be powerful. Prices are not low for the pure Sagrantino offerings, however. I am surprised and disappointed to hear about the Alice Feiring Sagrantino - I sympathize with her distaste for excessive alcohol, but did not think that she would be one to artificially dilute musts.

Oddly enough we had a Refosco in the hopper for tonight. It is the 2007 Tobin James, James Gang Reserve Refosco, Paso Robles ($38.00 U.S.). Alcohol level: 13.6%. It comes from one of two vineyards in Paso that grow it. I have to admit it came in the club’s shipment of eight for $145 plus S&H that have list prices ranging from $18 to $55.

This Refosco was dark, rich, and dense with rustic tones on the nose, tongue, and palate. The once big tannic structure was as smooth as a baby’s you know what. The finish was not harsh, but smoothly rustic.

We matched it with two inch thick lamb loin chops seasoned with salt, pepper, and granulated garlic, and grilled over charcoal and pecan chips; with rice pilaf and English peas as sides. This was our “Husband’s Day Dinner and it was fantastic.

Hi Tom -

Thank you again for the interesting notes. My feeling is that Aglianico really plays well off of volcanic soil - is there any old lava in the dirt around Clear Lake at all? Anyway, the Grifalco has been so-so in my experience. D'Angelo's basic Aglianco del Vulture is much better at a similar price.

As far as Sagrantino, Bea's wines are not at all international in style, although they can be powerful. Prices are not low for the pure Sagrantino offerings, however. I am surprised and disappointed to hear about the Alice Feiring Sagrantino - I sympathize with her distaste for excessive alcohol, but did not think that she would be one to artificially dilute musts.

Andrew,
Lots of volcanic stuff in the soils up in LakeCnty is my understanding. Probably not as much as southern Italy, though.
Not had the PaoloBea version, alas. Those wines are frightfully expensive....for reasons I don't understand...other than rarity.
Alice caved in to Kevin's strong suggestion of watering back. So much for her principals.
Tom

Lots of volcanic stuff in the soils up in LakeCnty is my understanding.

Tom, I think it all depends on where in Lake County. Some of the hillsides are straight volcanic and of quite recent (geologically speaking) origin but other soils are well represented, too. That's as far as my knowledge goes; no idea where these vineyards are soil-wise.

I was wondering if you'd run across Amador Foothill's Aglianico. Katie Quinn and Ben Zeitman planted some about ten or so years ago; I think the 2008 is their fourth vintage. I haven't had a chance to taste it but enjoyed the first couple of releases. If you get a chance to try one, I'd be curious to hear how they compare.

Sagrantino that reminds one of Pinot - who'd a thunk?
Nice shot at Alice, BTW.
Best, Jim

Sagrantino that reminds one of Pinot - who'd a thunk?
Nice shot at Alice, BTW.
Best, Jim

Now Jim......just doing my bit to stir-the-pot.
Since I have little pre-conceptions about what Sagrantino is supposed to be, other than a big/interbational
style of wine...my mind was open to what it was.
Tom

Lots of volcanic stuff in the soils up in LakeCnty is my understanding.

Tom, I think it all depends on where in Lake County. Some of the hillsides are straight volcanic and of quite recent (geologically speaking) origin but other soils are well represented, too. That's as far as my knowledge goes; no idea where these vineyards are soil-wise.

I was wondering if you'd run across Amador Foothill's Aglianico. Katie Quinn and Ben Zeitman planted some about ten or so years ago; I think the 2008 is their fourth vintage. I haven't had a chance to taste it but enjoyed the first couple of releases. If you get a chance to try one, I'd be curious to hear how they compare.

Mark,
Since I've not walked any LakeCnty vnyds, I don't really know much about the geology of the area. But...hey...I'm a LosAlamos guy...
I speak w/ authority on any subject...even if I don't know anything about it!!!
I was sorta assuming the RedHills AVA is probably mostly volcanic in nature. And I believe the area around Mt.Helena on the
Napa/Lake cnty border has a lot of volcanic soils.
I've not seen Ben&Katie's Aglianico. I hope to see them Fri after NEB#3, so should be able to talk Aglianico with them.
Tom

Andrew,
Lots of volcanic stuff in the soils up in LakeCnty is my understanding. Probably not as much as southern Italy, though.
Not had the PaoloBea version, alas. Those wines are frightfully expensive....for reasons I don't understand...other than rarity.
Alice caved in to Kevin's strong suggestion of watering back. So much for her principals.
Tom

Tom -

Thanks for the info. Lake County is not an area of California that I have much experience with. I'd gather that its potential is only starting to be discovered?
Bea does have a more reasonably priced ($30-$35) wine named San Valentino, but it is a blend of Sagrantino, Montepulciano, and Sangiovese. I'd recommend it if you are curious about the house style, so to speak - these are what I would have expected Alice to model her wines after. Actually, Caprai's top Sagrantino, the 25 Anni, typically costs around $100 in my area, which is partly why I've never had it. I do remember the Caprai Sagrantino Collepiano being in a more modern, polished style than the Bea wines.
Although it isn't Sagrantino, but rather an orange wine from Lazio, I've also enjoyed the Monastero Suore Cistercensi Coenobium Rusticum made by Paolo Bea's son Giampero. At about $35 over here, it's pretty reasonably priced for one of the better Italian orange wines out there - certainly much cheaper than Gravner.

Tom -
Thanks for the info. Lake County is not an area of California that I have much experience with. I'd gather that its potential is only starting to be discovered?

Andrew,
LakeCnty is a funny area. I think there's a great potential there for making great wines. I see flashes of that from time
to time. But a lot of mediocre schlock comes out of there. Many of the grapes go South into Napa to go into
annonymous blends. Probably Rosa d'Oro and SolRouge are the top performers up there. It's a pretty diverse area and I see
no reason that it can't produce wines as great as anywhere in Calif.
Tom

Yes, I love to drink Italian rượu vang wine very much ,

Late to this post. But a few thoughts.

CA Aglianico. A few years ago a Domenico, Amador County, was our fav wine of the year. So got a mixed half-case.

Dry Rose', CA 2014 (of Syrah)
Aglianico, Amador, 2012
Barbera, Lake County 2011
Super Tuscan, Amador, 2012 (Sangiovese, Primitivo, Syrah)
Red Blend,CA, Mambo Italiano 2011 (Zin, Cab Sauv, 5 others)

Only the Aglianico and the Super Tuscan remain. All others were quite decent. Price per bottle with taxes & shipping about $35. Don't regret the purchase.

Vivac, NM. Visited their tasting room in 2017. Went thru their lineup and really could not distinguish enough difference in QPR as the reds progressed from cheapest to more $$$. So purchased 1 bottle of Chenin Blanc, 1 Sangiovese as daily drinkers/weekend wines. The tasting room was really more of a combined wine bar/tasting room with Friday evening seeming more like happy hour. Whatever. Again, don't regret the experience. Part of the fun is visiting out of the way places in areas not much known for wine.

"Aglianico ressembles Syrah??" Not the Italians I taste.