The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Rivaner grape

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

JC (NC)

Rank

Lifelong Learner

Posts

6679

Joined

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

Fayetteville, NC

Rivaner grape

by JC (NC) » Sat May 19, 2012 6:49 pm

While in a Total Wine shop in Raleigh today I saw a Franken squatty type bottle labeled as Rivaner grape and was going to ask if David Bueker or anyone on the forum had had experience with it. I looked up the grape name and it is another name for Muller-Thurgau which I did try a few times while living in Germany. Wasn't very impressed.
no avatar
User

Bill Hooper

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2001

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:46 am

Location

McMinnville, OR

Re: Rivaner grape

by Bill Hooper » Sun May 20, 2012 6:02 am

Hi Jane,

Yes, Rivaner is a synonym for Müller-Thurgau whose usage came about in an attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of consumers when M-T was exposed for all of its glorious boringness. The grape was once thought to be a crossing of Riesling x Silvaner, hence Rivaner, but has been discovered to be a crossing of Riesling x Madeleine Royale (itself a crossing of Gutedel=Chasselas and the Pinot vine.) The labeling of M-T as Rivaner has now been pretty much abandoned. Switzerland (where the grape was originally developed) still uses the confusing and inaccurate synonym of Riesling-Silvaner on labels.

In Germany, the area devoted to Müller-Thurgau has been in decline over the last decade, and Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder) is now statistically tied with M-T as the 2nd most planted grape vine in the country after Riesling.

The only reason for the continued cultivation of Müller-Thurgau is because it is a cash-crop for sale on the bulk-market (in some vintages you can get up to 1,30€ per liter from a large bottler), but is not often bottled directly by the producer and I hardly ever see Müller-Thurgau on a producers wine list. M-T yields tremendously (150-200 hl/ha are quite achievable), it is an early ripener, gives decently high Oechsle and is lower in acidity. Drawbacks are that it is prone to late-frost in the spring, winter frost, and it is very sensitive to disease (in-part because of the high-yields and chemical fertilizers used to achieve them.)

I’m personally not a fan of Müller-Thurgau, but in its defense, there is nothing terribly wrong with it (other than perhaps playing a large role in helping to tarnish the image of German wine because of its inclusion in Liebfraumilch.) It is fruity, mildly aromatic, lowish in acidity and easy to drink. It is no better or worse than many of the white wines from the south of France or Italy in that regard (Ugni Blanc/Trebbiano come to mind.)

The best (or in any case, better) Müller-Thurgau wines have tended to come from Franken, but I recently saw for sale in a wine shop a Rheingau Müller-Thurgau on sale for 18€. Everyone I talk to gets a pretty big laugh out of that, but I may have to buy one just to see what the world’s most expensive dry M-T is all about –in the name of Science (though I may just be a sucker.)

Cheers,
Bill
Wein schenkt Freude
ITB paetrawine.com
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

4090

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Rivaner grape

by Peter May » Sun May 20, 2012 10:11 am

Muller-Thurgau was the grape of the 1970's English wine renaissance although it has fallen out of favour now.

Here at the cold northern limits of winemaking it can make a steely-dry crisp wine with good acidity and grassy hedgerow flavours.

Gillian Pearkes, one of the pioneers who planted a Devon vineyard in 1963 and experimented with many varieties to find the best for our climate wrote " Makes an excellent Alsation type wine of considerable quality and bouquet, which matures early because of low acidity."

It was often labelled here as Rivaner because that name was easier for customers to pronounce and took less room on the label.
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

4090

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Rivaner grape

by Peter May » Sun May 20, 2012 10:50 am

I've been wracking my brain to remember where I have seen a Rivaner wine in the past few weeks and it's just come to me....

At the Badischer Winzerkeller winery in Breisach, Germany earlier this month. They also have three Muller-Thurgau bottlings..

(and - thread drift - they are the first place I encountered Cabernet Mitos, Cabernet Sauvignon X Lembeger cross)


http://www.badischer-winzerkeller.de
no avatar
User

JC (NC)

Rank

Lifelong Learner

Posts

6679

Joined

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

Fayetteville, NC

Re: Rivaner grape

by JC (NC) » Sun May 20, 2012 5:07 pm

Thanks for your comments Peter and Bill.
no avatar
User

Andrew Bair

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

929

Joined

Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:16 pm

Location

Massachusetts

Re: Rivaner grape

by Andrew Bair » Mon May 21, 2012 6:30 pm

Hi Jane -

I'm not a big fan of Rivaner or Müller-Thurgau myself, having tried several German and Italian examples, and one from Austria. The only one of these that I've liked was from Fürst in Franken.

There seems to be a fair amount of this grape grown in Alto Adige in Italy, and a bit in Oregon. I also recall once seeing a Swiss bottle labeled (misleadingly) as "Riesling x Sylvaner".

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, Apple Bot, ByteSpider, ClaudeBot and 3 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign