The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

WTN: Lapierre 2011 - what is that matchstick note?

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4979

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

WTN: Lapierre 2011 - what is that matchstick note?

by Tim York » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:22 am

Morgon 2011 – M.Lapierre – Alc.12.5%, “without added sulphur or filtration, this wine must be kept at a temperature not exceeding 14°C” (my loose translation from back label).

The nose was exhilarating with fresh red fruit with a lot of sharp strawberry notes and very mineral with striking match hints, which I would attribute to added sulphur without that back label note (some 18 hours after opening the heeltaps’ aromas have become darker and more complex with no hint of oxidation and matches no longer perceptible).

The palate was medium/light, linear in shape and quite long, the texture was that of slightly matt silk, the red fruit was lively and again there were attractively burgeoning minerals with an element flint veering to striking match, lively/crisp non-astringent acidity and gentle grip on the finish. The overall effect was surprisingly elegant for Beaujolais.

My guess while drinking was that there was not a lot of ageing potential but the way that the bouquet has behaved in the nearly empty bottle suggests that may be wrong, provided that one has a cellar which guarantees less than 14°C (57°F), which mine does not. Delicious; 16/20+.
Tim York
no avatar
User

Joe Moryl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

990

Joined

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Location

New Jersey, USA

Re: WTN: Lapierre 2011 - what is that matchstick note?

by Joe Moryl » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:27 pm

Hmm, struck match is more like SO2 than H2S. You can get the latter if there aren't sufficient yeast nutrients available in the must (mainly nitrogen compounds) and the yeast winds up metabolizing the sulfur containing amino acids present. This is why 'interventionist' wine makers add a dose of DAP (diammonium phosphate) to the must prior to fermentation - I'm sure this is not going on at Lapierre. Of course, H2S can ultimately wind up as mercaptans (various stinky compounds). If it really is a touch of SO2, maybe therre is a mechanism from elemental sulfur used in the vineyard?
no avatar
User

Howie Hart

Rank

The Hart of Buffalo

Posts

6389

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Location

Niagara Falls, NY

Re: WTN: Lapierre 2011 - what is that matchstick note?

by Howie Hart » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:11 pm

There are some yeast strains, most notably Prise de Mousse (EC-1118) that actually produce SO2 during fermentation, but usually not enough to be noticeable, maybe 20 ppm. The nose generally doesn't pick it up at less than 50 ppm. This strain is often used for making sparkling wines.
Chico - Hey! This Bottle is empty!
Groucho - That's because it's dry Champagne.
no avatar
User

Victorwine

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2031

Joined

Thu May 18, 2006 9:51 pm

Re: WTN: Lapierre 2011 - what is that matchstick note?

by Victorwine » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:39 pm

Hi Tim,
As Joe stated I would conclude that a “match stick note” or “struck match note” (or any “sharp pungent” aroma) was due to the SO2 concentration. To some degree SO2 is a “natural” by product of fermentation. As Howie stated certain strains of yeast and bacteria are known to produce “low”, “moderate” to “high” levels of SO2. I would not however make any correlation between SO2 concentration and H2S concentration. As Joe stated usually when a yeast population is “stressed” or lacking in nutrients (mainly nitrogen) would it produce high levels of H2S (rotten egg smell). (Prior to the start of fermentation usually a “nitrogen determination” is done (for a “healthy fermentation” a “nitrogen concentration” of 150 to 200 mg/L is “desirable”. Usually in my case I do an “ammonia determination”, some say this is inadequate and a “proper” YAN (yeast available nitrogen) determination should be performed). Yeast strains are also “rated low, moderate or high in yeast nutrient requirements”. Those rated “low” (require less nitrogen and other nutrients) and do not get “stressed” as easily and produce only low levels of H2S. Aerating the must and fermenting wine (and managing the cap in a red wine production) should easily “release” any H2S produced (however this does not "stop" the "production of H2S). Also agree with Joe that any “elementary sulfur” used in the vineyard or "prepping" a barrel (especially late in the season) can easily “oxidize” into SO2 and be “carried over” into both the juice and wine.

Salute
no avatar
User

Ben Rotter

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

295

Joined

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:59 pm

Location

Sydney, Australia (currently)

Re: WTN: Lapierre 2011 - what is that matchstick note?

by Ben Rotter » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:59 am

I think it's more likely the matchstick character in this case is from reduced sulphur compound(s) (e.g., disulphides/mercaptans), which can develop irrespective of SO2 use on the fruit or the wine. This is often the case, but is perhaps even more likely in this particular case because it is a "natural" wine and the SO2 content is therefore likely minimal (whether that SO2 be naturally produced by yeast or added by the winemaker - some "natural" winemakers do add a little at bottling but I'm not sure about Lapierre's exact practice).
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4979

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: WTN: Lapierre 2011 - what is that matchstick note?

by Tim York » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:38 am

Ben Rotter wrote:I think it's more likely the matchstick character in this case is from reduced sulphur compound(s) (e.g., disulphides/mercaptans), which can develop irrespective of SO2 use on the fruit or the wine. This is often the case, but is perhaps even more likely in this particular case because it is a "natural" wine and the SO2 content is therefore likely minimal (whether that SO2 be naturally produced by yeast or added by the winemaker - some "natural" winemakers do add a little at bottling but I'm not sure about Lapierre's exact practice).


Ben, I think that you are agreeing with what Jamie Goode, wine science writer, says on another site where he opines that we need to distinguish between sulfites and reduced sulfur compounds (mercaptans, disulfides, thioesters - aka reduction) and says that the struck match character is reduction in one of its incarnations.

I would reproduce his posts in full, were it not for the fact that it may infringe site rules here or on the other site.

It seems that the experts don't fully agree and I regret that personally I lack the knowledge to argue the matter further.
Tim York

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, Baidu [Spider], ByteSpider, ClaudeBot, DotBot, FB-extagent and 3 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign