WTN: Old Alsatians...(long/boring)

We tasted last night (1/18/12) some Alsatians from the archives: Jan 18, 2012
1. DomainesDopff Eichberg GWT AC: Alsace (ReserveSpeciale; 13%; EB; PropreRecolteTardive)
DopffAuMoulin/Riquewihr 1971: Dark gold/burnished bronze color; slight nutty/oxidized rather spicy/old GWT/cinammon
slight herbal/grassy very complex old GWT nose; soft slight oxidized/nutty lovely old GWT/spicy/cinammon slight
bitter quite complex flavor; very long/lingering soft rich/lush slight oxidized/nutty/bitter lovely old GWT/spicy/
cinammon quite complex beautiful finish; some slight oxidation starting to show but a lovely example of a mature
old Alsatian GWT still very much alive. $5.25
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2. Babcock GWT DryBarrelFrmtd SantaYnezVlly (EG; 13.0%) 1988: Med.gold color; quite spicy rather smokey/pungent very
aromatic/old GWT/spicy/cinammon slight hair oil very complex beautiful nose; rather tart quite spicy/old GWT quite
smokey/pungent wonderful complex flavor; very long/lingering spicy/old GWT/cinammon tangy very complex finish; no
signs whatsoever of oxidation in the color/aromatics/on the palate whatsoever; a beautiful example of an old GWT..
and from Calif of all places. $9.50 (AJ)
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3. Dom.Willm GWT ClosGaensbroennel AC: AGC (13.5%) Barr 1985: Med.dark gold color; lovely very spicy/old GWT/cinammon
bit smokey no oxidation very complex nose; soft rich/lush lovely old GWT/spicy/smokey complex flavor; very long/
lingering old GWT/spicy/cinammon some smokey/pungent very complex finish; not a lot of intensity but a lovely gentle
old lady of a GWT who's still very much alive; one of the best examples of these old GWTs. $17.00
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4. MarcKreydenweiss GWT Kritt AC: Alsace (MeBaD; 13.5%) Vigneron/Proprietaire/Andlau 1988: Med.gold color; slight lychee/
youthful/hair oil/mango quite spicy some mature/old GWT complex nose; fairly tart rich/lush bit lychee/hair oil some
tangy slight bitter somewhat spicy/old GWT flavor; very long slight bitter some lychee/hair oil bit old GWT/spicy
some herbal/green chile finish; in great condition and seems more youthful than the others w/ more primary GWT
character and less old GWT/complex character. $16.00
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5. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht Muscat d'Alsace AC: Alsace (MaD; 11.5%) 1987: Light gold/med.yellow color; definitely Muscat/
hair oil slight piney/retsina slight Riesling/valve oil/gout de petrol tangy/metallic complex very interesting nose;
slight Muscat/hair oil rather piney/PineSol rather tangy/metallic rather bitter flavor; med.long light Muscat/hair oil
tangy/metallic quite bitter finish; still speaks of Muscat, but quietly; quite an interesting nose but a bit mangled
on the palate. $11.00
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6. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht Tokay PinotGris VielleVigne AC: A (MaD, 13%) 1987: Med.dark gold color; some maderized/oxidized
overripe/rotted apple no fruit nose; soft some oxidized/maderized quite overripe/rotted apple flavor; same maderized/
oxidized finish; way too oxidized and probably a cork failure. $17.90
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7. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht Riesling HerrenwegTuurckheim AC: A (MaD, 12%) 1987: Med.gold color; some old R/valve oil/gout de petrol
some piney/PineSol/Christmas tree bit smokey rather complex nose; tart/lean/acid/tangy interesting piney/Christmas tree
bit eviscerated slight Mosel valve oil totally dry flavor; long tart/lean/acid/tangy somewhat piney/Christmas tree
light old R/valve oil rather austere finish; rather old-timey Alsace R in character but not much development of gout
de petrol character; no telling where this will go, but no signs of oxidation evident. $11.60
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8. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht Riesling Brand AC: AlsaceGrandCru (12%) LeonardHumbrecht/Wintzenheim 1986: Med.dark gold/burnished
bronze color; rather tobaccoy/pungent slight volatile/pickle juice smokey very ripe/overripe fruit nose w/ not much
complexity developed; soft very ripe/pineapply/old Caalif R some oxidized/maderized bit smokey/pungent flavor; med.long
soft/fat rather overripe fruit/pineapply slight oxidized/maderized slight smokey/pungent off-dry finish; more like a
10 yr old Calif R than a 25 yr old Alsatian R; evolved in a rather strange way. $23.75
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9. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht GWT HerrenwegTuurckheim AC: A (MaD, 14%) 1986: Cloudy golden/brownish color; very tangy/Madeira/smokey
no GWT whatsoever nose; off-dry/sweetish badly oxidized/wet dog fur maderized flavor; very long very oxidized/wet dog fur
maderized off-dry finish; not too bad as an off-dry Madeira but totally shot as an old GWT; probably cork failure. $31.75
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10. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht GWT HeimbourgTuurckheim AC: A (MaD, 14%) 1987: Med.dark gold color; some old GWT/spicy light/low-key
interesting w/ no obvious nutty/oxidized character; tart/dry/austere some old GWT/spicy slight bitter bit vapid
slight ripe/pineapply interesting flavor; long somewhat dried out/austere rather bitter tart/dry/austere bit vapid
slight old GWT/spicy finish; no obvious oxidation but just not much there. $14.10
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11. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht GWT Goldert AC: AGC (13%) 1987: Med.dark gold color w/ no browning; rather smokey/honeyed strong
old GWT/spicy/cinammon quite complex lovely nose; tart/dry rather austere/lean old GWT/spicy/nutmeg slight lychee/
hair oil/young GWT complex flavor; very long/lingering strong old GWT/spicy/nutmeg rather lean/austere/dry quite complex
finish; a lovely example of old GWT w/ good complexity. $17.40
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12. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht GWT Hengst AC: AGC (13.5%) 1987: Med.dark gold/burnished bronze color w/ no browning; very ripe/
honeyed fairly strong old GWT/spicy/cinammon/nutmeg slight hair oil/GWT beautiful/complex nose; soft lush/ripe/honeyed
fairly rich old GWT/spicy/nutmeg light hair oil/lychee slight bitter/quinine quite complex/old GWT flavor; very long/
lingering old GWT/spicy/nutmeg light hair oil/lychee bit bitter/quinine rich/lush/soft/dry very complex finish; still
some youth & a bit porky/fat but another lovely/complex old GWT. $19.05
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13. LeonBeyer GWT AC: Alsace (11%-14%) 1988: Med.gold color; lovely smokey/pungent/piney/Christmas tree slight oxidized/
nutty bit complex/old GWT/spicy nose; tart/lean rather smokey/pungent/piney/Christmas slight old GWT/spicy slight
oxidized flavor; med.long tart/lean some smokey/pungent/piney slight oxidized/nutty bit old GWT/spicy finish; seems
like the cork failed somewhat; a 2'nd btl several days later was in much better shape and a lovely example of a gentle
old Alsatian GWT.
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14. Dom.Ostertag Riesling Fronholz AC: Alsace (MeBaD; 12.5%) Vigneron: DomaineOstertag/Epfig 1988: Dark gold/bit browning
color; strong pepperminty/ribbon candy overripe some oxidized/maderized no old R nose; some tart/lean dry pepperminty/
overripe rather maderized/oxidized flavor; med.short peppermint dry/tart/lean oxidized/nutty/maderized finish; pretty
much a shot wine w/ no redeeming features. $22.00 (A)
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And the usual BloodyPulpit:
1. Because these wines were fairly old and possibly a bit oxidized, I served them at cool room temperature (low-60's)
in order to enhance the aromatics and reduce and bitterness the oxidation might have. In a couple of btls, the
cork punched down into the wine when I took the Ah-So to it. But there was no pronounced browning on any of the
wines that indicated any of the corks had failed.
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2. I am a big fan of old/mature Alsatian GWT's. Around '69, I found a stash of the '59 ClosGaensbroennel GWT at
HappyHollow in KansasCity. A very expensive (for me) wine at $18/btl. I tried a btl and was blown away by it;
went back and bought a bunch more. I had my last one in the late '70's and it was still a beautiful old lady.
GWT has a very distinctive aroma to it that transcends terroir. It can sometimes be very powerful, very hair-oil/
Vitalis; some describe it has lychee...though the fresh lychees I've had don't have much aroma that I could tell.
It can sometimes be a bit off-putting to some people. It is the ideal/only accompainment to classic Alsatian
weenies & kraut.
But has GWT ages, it loses that youthful intensity and develops a beautiful/complex old GWT aroma; elegant,
a bit spicy like cinammon & nutmeg, very perfumed...old GWT is about the only way to describe it. It's an aroma
that I search for and love in GWT w/ some age on them.
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3. My customary rant on Alsatian wines: When I first started drinking wines, I was quickly drawn to Alsatian wines
and fell madly in love with them. They were dry and very aromatic; great to go w/ my weenies & kraut and tart flambee.
And, best of all, they were....cheap. White wines you could drink on a daily basis, with all sorts of things.
You could find good/great Alsatian Riesling/GWT typically for less than $5. And, even though they were cheap, many/
most aged incredibly well. It was a wonderful world to be in.
We bought a ton of the Dopff Au Moulin GrandCru Schoenenberg Riesling and Eichberg GWT, both VendageTardive. Back
in those days, VT just represented "late harvest", slightly richer & bigger than the bottom-end Dopffs (which were
also amazingly good). And...best of all, those VT were totally dry. Both of those Dopffs aged amazingly well and
easily went out 20 yrs. The cost all of $4.99 at Boulder's LiquorMart. Did I mention they were...cheap.
Next came along the '76 BottFreres, imported by Draper&Esquin. GWT/Riesling/Muscat. They were two levels,
SelectionneEspeciale and ReservePersonnelle (the VT level). Alas, the prices had escalated badly. The SE were about
$6 and the RP about $8. Again, we bought a ton of them on special order.
And there were some other amazing ones in there in the late '70's. The Hugel ReservePersonnelle (VT llevel) and
Selectionne au JeanHugel I recall. The Trimbach special cuvees. They were all delicious, food friendly, drinkable in
large quantities....and don't forget....cheap. Zind-Humbrecht....never done did hear'ed of them.
The Rieslings were a special case. They were dry and very acidic in many cases. But they aged incredibly well,
taking on that gout de petrol/valve oil character you get in old German Mosel. My criteria back then for buying
Alsatian Riesling.....the more austere and they more hurtey they were to drink young, the better they would be
with some age on them. Worked amazingly well.
And then something happened. Something very bad. The Z-H's appeared on the scene. The low-end ones were quite
good; classic/traditional Alsatians...low alcohol, dry, good acidity..though not so cheap any more. And then there
were the Z-H GrandCrus. Different in style. Higher in alcohol, lower in acidity, often with a bit of RS; rich & lush
and fat; extracted, mouth-filling wines. And the VT level?? Quite sweet..2%-8% RS. Not so good anymore w/ weenies &
kraut. And frightfully expensive...sometimes in excess of $20. Look at those gawd-awfull prices on the Z-H's above.
But...wait....it gets worse. These gross abberations/characterizations of Alsatian wines started to get rave
reviews from certain Monktown attourneys...and scores in the mid-upper 90's. Leonard Humbrecht was labeled as the
world's greatest winemaker. Before long, these high alcohol, off-dry, low acidity, highly extracted, fat/porky
wines became to be thought of by consumers as "classic" Alsatian wines. They were amazing wines to taste and
marvel at their extraction levels...but they did not go w/ my weenies & kraut. I had serious doubts that these
abominations would age nearly as well os those of yore.
But...wait....it gets worse. Other Alsatian winemakers took note of the scores these Z-H's were receiving out
of Monktown. They decided they could get those same high scores and charge those same prices. What were once the
exception now became the norm. The whole genre/style of Alsatian wines changed...and not for the better. Prices
sky-rocketed. $50-$80 Alsatian whites...gimmee a break. My consumption of cheap Alsatian wines and weenies & kraut
plummeted. A heavy/depressing gloom descended over LosAlamos.
So... I organized this tasting w/ very low expectations...given the number of Z-H's I had included. In the
prelims, I tried several btls of the low-end Z-H's GWT & Riesling Reservves. They were totally dead & gone. I held
out little hope for the village designates and the GrandCrus as well. But...surprise...some of these Z-H's were
not only pretty good, but some had aged amazingly well...far better than my expectations. In some cases, it was
obvious from the first pour that the wine was gone. The color was not just golden/burnished brown, but had
definite brownish tones. Oxidized...which I attrubute to cork failure (nearly all the corks were crumbly, difficult
to extract, even w/ an AhSo, some fell into the btl...though the fill levels were good on all). But some of the
others had evolved into beautiful examples of old Alsatian wines. Shows how much I know about Alsatian wines
I guess.
So....where do I stand now vis a vis Alsatian wines??? I try most of the low-end Alsatians that come down the
pike. They're generally richer & lower acid than the ones I recall. Some of them are pretty decent, actually.
I buy the low-end Z-H's and find them to be OK. I almost never buy the Z-H's GrandCrus because of the price,
certainly not the VendageTardives as they're too sweet to go w/ my weenies & kraut. The Z-H SGN's remind me too
much of the Calif freezer IceWines and I'm skeptical they evolve into something like a great Mosel BA or TBA.
I like the Marcel Deiss, Kreydinweiss, DomaineWeinbach. Sometimes the prices are more than I want to pay.
But when I want a good GWT to go with my weenies & kraut, I generally turn to the AltoAdige. Where I think
some of the most traditional/old-timey GWTs are being made these days. Particularly the Abbazzia. I like the
Claibourne & Churchills from Calif. I think the lean/mean Rieslings from AdamTolmach, which get low marks
out of Monktown, have the potential to age into great old Riesling.
But it's a sad/sad world out there. Gawd..I miss the good/old days of Alsatian whites. End of rant/fini.
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4. Babcock: I had another btl of this same wine a week earlier and they oxidation was pretty noticible and it was pretty
shakey condition. This btl was totally different, w/ no signs of nutty/oxidation whatsoever. Easily, the best
example of an old Calif GWT I've ever had. What a shame Brian abandoned GWT. I think probably the Claibourne&
Churchill GWT's have the potential to age as well as this one.
Tom

Tom, the problem with critics driving the wine profession is that certain powerful critics are Tasters: they taste a wine for a few seconds, form an immediate opinion, then move on quickly to the next wine to taste. Wines that taste good initially don't always continue to appeal; sometimes quite the opposite, in fact. The initial taste of an over-ripe, over-sugared, over-phenoled, over-oaked, over-manipulated jammy fruit bomb may be impressive with one tentative sip (they certainly can be overwhelming in their sugary opulence, can't they?), but they are not wines you wish to spend any appreciable amount of time with.

Even we plebeians do that: we'll quickly taste a wine at a trade tasting and it jumps right out of the glass in contrast to the others. Sorta like a guy seeing a buxom woman in a bikini walking in front of a conservatively dressed claque of women---she stands out, attracts the eye, but often when you follow up, the charms fade quickly and there's the nagging thought that maybe there were some enhancements there you didn't notice at first glance. You were caught by the flash and neglected to notice the less extrusive charms of the other ladies who perhaps would have been more interesting companions.

I prefer critics who are actually wine drinkers, and who prefer to form their opinions not in a moment but over a period of time, said time consumed in consuming....actually drinking the wine. Clinical group speed tasting in an abstract environment doesn't do it.

On the other hand, I'd be happy to try the Z-H wines---but I'd like to see an accompanying script that goes with them for the unsuspecting buyer: "These wines are highly rated by influential critics and are considered by many to be exceptional examples. However, they are unctuously sweet and are not by any means suitable for every occasion. You may want to open this bottle only when you have several guests so you can serve small amounts to each, as no one actually wants a full glass of this wine. We suggest you not use this as a dinner wine...unless, of course, you are Paula Deen."

Tom, the problem with critics driving the wine profession is that certain powerful critics are Tasters: they taste a wine for a few seconds, form an immediate opinion, then move on quickly to the next wine to taste. Wines that taste good initially don't always continue to appeal; sometimes quite the opposite, in fact. The initial taste of an over-ripe, over-sugared, over-phenoled, over-oaked, over-manipulated jammy fruit bomb may be impressive with one tentative sip (they certainly can be overwhelming in their sugary opulence, can't they?), but they are not wines you wish to spend any appreciable amount of time with.

Even we plebeians do that: we'll quickly taste a wine at a trade tasting and it jumps right out of the glass in contrast to the others. Sorta like a guy seeing a buxom woman in a bikini walking in front of a conservatively dressed claque of women---she stands out, attracts the eye, but often when you follow up, the charms fade quickly and there's the nagging thought that maybe there were some enhancements there you didn't notice at first glance. You were caught by the flash and neglected to notice the less extrusive charms of the other ladies who perhaps would have been more interesting companions.

I prefer critics who are actually wine drinkers, and who prefer to form their opinions not in a moment but over a period of time, said time consumed in consuming....actually drinking the wine. Clinical group speed tasting in an abstract environment doesn't do it.

On the other hand, I'd be happy to try the Z-H wines---but I'd like to see an accompanying script that goes with them for the unsuspecting buyer: "These wines are highly rated by influential critics and are considered by many to be exceptional examples. However, they are unctuously sweet and are not by any means suitable for every occasion. You may want to open this bottle only when you have several guests so you can serve small amounts to each, as no one actually wants a full glass of this wine. We suggest you not use this as a dinner wine...unless, of course, you are Paula Deen."

Yup...preachin' to the choir here, Hoke.
Some of the wines I like when I first crack them open...I'll find very tiiring towards the end of the meal. Acidity is probably the key here.
Tom

[James Roscoe]

Hasn't Paula received enough punishment? And Hoke is a fellow Georgian too!
Nicely ranted Tom. I remember 1969. I believe I was ten.

Hasn't Paula received enough punishment? And Hoke is a fellow Georgian too!
Nicely ranted Tom. I remember 1969. I believe I was ten.

Paula? No, not nearly enough. Her coming out was strictly because she had gained a deep-pocket sponsor giving her lots of money to come out against diabetes. Woman wants to eat cream (and tell other people it's okay to eat cream and cream only the rest of their lives), then comes out to say sobsob she's got diabetes and is going to be vocal about it? Oh, and for lots of money?

As a diabetic, I have no sympathy for her and would tell her to do something anatomical to herself.

She's a piglet trying to profit out of dragging other people into the pig sty with her. Her epiphany was strictly for $$$$money$$$. She's the Newtie of the cooking channel.

Hey, Roscoe, Georgia has created a whole slew of talented and creative and intelligent people. True, most of those description left the state as soon as they could, but hey.

The 87 ZHs were made by Leonard, correct? I think Olivier Humbrecht had a major role starting around early 90s. I prefer Leonard's wines. For more recent, I find that I prefer the aromatic Gewurtraminers and Muscat to the Rieslings.
Good rant

So tonight we have rants and Monty Python on WLDG. Lovely.

Tom, definitely not "boring." Awesome tasting!

[David M. Bueker]

Echoing the thanks for the posting and the kudos on the rant. I might take exception a bit, especially since I have found some actual uses for those recent ZH Gewurz VTs - they go great with Indian food, especially biryani!

Yes, the pricing of the wines hurts, but I will have more to say on that score in the near future.

I'm not such a fan of aged GWT; prefer them young. But my hat's off to anyone who has a stash of 1988 Santa Ynez Valley GWT. Also enjoyed the ZH rant. Some producers like Weinbach have gone from an occasional treat to wines that I will probably never buy again. It seems that a lot of small, interesting producers have vanished from the shelves in the US. Around here it seems to be low-end Willm/Hugel/Trimbach for $10-$15 or high end trophy Z-H/Weinbach.

Speaking of GWT, I had a brilliant one from the Finger Lakes a couple nights ago, the 2010 Sheldrake Point.

It seems that a lot of small, interesting producers have vanished from the shelves in the US..

Alsatian producers? There is certainly no lack of small interesting producers from outside Alsace on US winestore shelves.

Echoing the thanks for the posting and the kudos on the rant. I might take exception a bit, especially since I have found some actual uses for those recent ZH Gewurz VTs - they go great with Indian food, especially biryani!

Point taken, David. I would say that for almost any wine, whatever its style, you can come up with a suitable
dish to accompany it.
However, for us stick-in-the-mud/fuddy-duddies, we like to choose typical cuisine of the region to accompany
the wine of the region. When I think of weenies & kraut, Alsatian GWT comes immediately to mind.
When I think of tandoori chicken, GWT it not what comes to mind...beer, maybe. But Z-H GWT would probably work just fine.
Tom

It seems that a lot of small, interesting producers have vanished from the shelves in the US..

Alsatian producers? There is certainly no lack of small interesting producers from outside Alsace on US winestore shelves.

Yes, I meant Alsatian producers. Some shops used to carry quite a few. I suppose the importers have found it uneconomic to bring in many of the more obscure producers, since Alsace seems to be a region that has fallen out of favor is some ways. In the last few decades the variety from Loire, Germany, Southern Italy (just to name a few examples) has really improved, not so much for Alsace...

Alsace seems to be a region that has fallen out of favor is some ways.

I've noticed that (in Paris as well) and have often wondered about the reason.

Rahsaan, I've been around long enough now to learn that, at least in the US, Alsace tends to be cyclical in nature in terms of market presence.

When I was a retail buyer for a large wine store chain I became enthusiastic about Alsace and decided it needed better chances and better exposure, so I decided to push it aggressively---well, as aggessively as I could within the restraints of good business---and added good selections, included Alsace in some ads, made sure they were rotated through the discount selections, spent some time exposing them and tasting them to store staff, and generally cheerleaded whenever I could.

At that time, and in that place (Texas), it didn't work very well, and as soon as I stopped the push on my part, the sales dropped right back to where they had been before, and the selection dwindled by attrition. There was no reinforcement from Alsace (other than extraordinarily good wines of couse) and very little from the French wine marketing efforts. I simply could not get sufficient traction in the market to justify the attention and shelf space

Fast forward many years later, and in Sonoma in one big store, the manager/buyer got totally stoked on Alsace and bought some astonishingly good wines, case stacked them, expanded the whole Alsace section, added signage, tasted his staff, talked up Alsace whenever he had the chance. Result: I and a handful of people ended up getting most of those wines on steep discounts when they didn't move. Buyer took a bath on them, trimmed back his Alsatian section---reluctantly---and gave the space to a wine region or style that generated more revenue and less inventory cost.

Why this is, I don't know. We could probably discuss this ad infinitum and come up with possible reasons. But I have come to believe that (short of a tremendous amount of marketing money injected into the system) Alsace wines have a self-limiting barrier to expanded popularity and volume. And the nature of the business in Alsace (more small growers, fewer mega-industry winemakers) that's not going to happen. The other option could be, possibly, analogous to what happened to Gruner Veltliner/Austria, but it certainly hasn't happened yet.

I've noticed that (in Paris as well) and have often wondered about the reason.

Alsace has never been popular in the rest of France, for a lot of reasons, (mainly historical). A sommelier in a two-star restaurant in Paris had not even heard of CSH...

Greetings from Sweden / Fredrik L

a lot of reasons, (mainly historical)

Too German?

One issue that might make Alsace wines “unpopular” among the “average consumers” is that people do not know what it is. Is it a French or German wine? As mentioned by others even in France itself it has an “identity” problem. Type and shape of bottle it is marketed in, the label itself could look more German than French. Alsace markets its wine with the grape variety listed on the label, unlike most of the other wine region in France.

BTW Tom Nice Post!

Salute

[David M. Bueker]

Alsatian wines, especially Pinot Gris, Muscat and Gewurztraminer, are too flamboyant, too showy to find favor with the average wine consumer. As for Riesling, well, everyone knows that Riesling is sweet (even when it isn't), and that damns it for a huge percentage of the wine buying public.

Victor and David both make salient points in regard to Alsace wines. I think it's the 'opacity'---not of the wine but of the nature of the region that Victor cited---that makes Alsace wines a difficult sell. They're certainly not warm and fuzzy and friendly in their appearance and appeal, the uniformity of bottles suggest a uniformity of style that is A) not at all what Alsace truly is (i.e., German and sweet, despite the trend of Z-H and others), and B) not at all what the variety of Alsatian varieties and styles can be.

But most of all, there is no indication whatsoever of what the "secret" of Alsace is. Not really a secret of course, but that superb and unique combination of Vosges Mtns., eastward facing slope, sun blessed and warm, with the astonishing, truly astonishing, variety of soil types, all enhanced by myriad talented 'craft' winemakers with a tradition of being tied to the soil for centuries to focus and enhance those attributes. Gewurztraminer from Alsace doesn't taste like any other Gewurz made anywhere else---and we're not talking quality, we're talking style. Pinot Gris is elevated to an entirely different expression in the Alsace. Muscat. Even Pinot Blanc, which reaches heights of expression not generally found anywhere else. And Riesling, well....

To understand and appreciate Alsace, you have to be led to by someone who knows when you are ready to appreciate it. Snobbish and elitist as that might sound, I think it's true. Very few people come to appreciate Alsace instantly and spontaneously before they've been led to it.

Confess: how many people never had or never appreciated Alsace wines until they read about them here, and in other appropriate places?

I'm surprised that the word "petrol" only turned up once and on Muscat of all things. My experience with Reisling from Alsace at the ten to twelve year point reeks with petrol which I love. Used to be able to find such things in end bins, but not lately.

I'm surprised that the word "petrol" only turned up once and on Muscat of all things. My experience with Reisling from Alsace at the ten to twelve year point reeks with petrol which I love. Used to be able to find such things in end bins, but not lately.

Yup.....on the Rieslings, I was looking for the signs of the petrol, Carl. Couldn't find much in there at all, a bit in the Herrenweg maybe.
Both of the Z-H Rieslings were fairly ripe, not much acidity, when they were young, so that may be why.
But the old-timey Alsatian Rieslings, w/ high acidity, seemed to really develop that petrol character.
Tom